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Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast Digital Marketing Podcast Hosted by Greg Bray and Kevin Weitzel

99 Enriching Customer Experience with Technology - Amanda Kruit

This week on The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast, Amanda Kruit of Hayden Homes joins Greg and Kevin to discuss using technology to enrich the customer home buying experience.

It’s important to understand that buying a home is one of the most expensive purchases that a person may make in their lifetime. Amanda explains, “it's a big decision and there's a lot of emotion that happens with that. Not just because you're buying a home, but typically people are usually buying a home because they're having some big life event that happens. Maybe they're having a baby, so they need a bigger home, or they've just gotten engaged or, you know, maybe they're selling their home that they lived in for 50 years and they're wanting to move somewhere that's a little smaller. So, not only is the act of buying a home emotional but it's usually tied to something emotional that's happening in your life and technology can be leveraged. and we are leveraging that, to really help create human connection.”

Specifically, Amanda says that technology can be leveraged to “help identify and really map out the highs and the lows of the home buying journey and to help make the highs exceptional and make the lows, hopefully not quite so low.”

Listen to this week’s episode to learn how technology can really be utilized to create a top-notch customer experience.

About the Guest:

Amanda Kruit joined Hayden Homes in September 2012. With nearly a decade of homebuilder marketing experience under her belt, she has held multiple positions within the Hayden Homes marketing department. She graduated with honors, receiving a Bachelor of Science in Marketing, with a minor in Spanish from Arizona State University. Throughout her journey at Hayden Homes, she has been responsible for helping to build the Online Home Sales program, CRM implementation, multiple website redesign projects and executing the company’s online marketing strategies.

She resides in beautiful Central Oregon, with her husband and 2-year-old son. During her free time, she’s an avid outdoor enthusiast, spending time hiking, mountain biking and enjoying nature. In addition, she has 500 hours of yoga teacher training and has enjoyed many years of teaching and practicing yoga.


Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine,

Kevin Weitzel: and I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse,

Greg Bray: and we are excited today to welcome to the show Amanda Kruit a digital marketing specialist with Hayden Homes. Welcome Amanda. Thanks for joining us today.

Amanda Kruit: Thank you. I am very honored and excited to be here today.

Greg Bray: Well, Amanda, let's start off by getting to know you a little better. Please give us that quick introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Amanda Kruit: Yeah. So, Amanda Kruit. I'm located here in central Oregon. I'm an Oregon native.

[00:01:00] So, I was actually born and raised in Oregon and then moved away for a couple years to go to college and lived in Arizona for a while because I'm a sunshine girl. So, yep. I went to ASU and I am going on nine years in the home building industry, which is crazy to think that it's been almost a decade and feel like time flies when you're having fun. So, I've, had marketing positions in many industries, but definitely home building has been my favorite.

Kevin Weitzel: Now, we want to know a little bit more about your pathway into home building, but that's the business side of you. I need to know little secret side of you is some hobbies, some little passion that you have in your life that we can learn about on this podcast.

Amanda Kruit: Absolutely. So, you know, I used to be an avid rock climber and that's actually why I ended up moving back to where I am. I'm still avid outdoor enthusiast, but I've definitely turned a lot more towards mountain biking and hiking, of course. My days of climbing are passed, but hopefully I'll get back to that someday, so. When I'm not working, I'm definitely outside, typically mountain biking or hiking or something like.

Kevin Weitzel: Nice.[00:02:00]

Greg Bray: Did you ever have a scary moment rock climbing?

Amanda Kruit: Oh, yeah. I have one friend. Her name is Natalie and we used to call it adventures with Amanda and Natalie cause inevitably when we went out and did a multi-pitch, that's where you do a pitch and then you wait for the other person to climb up and then you climb higher. Inevitably, if we did something like that or whatever route we did, we always ended up having some sort of fiasco. It ended up okay always, but there was always something that happened like that was a close call.

Greg Bray: I don't understand leaving a perfectly stable ground and putting yourself up high where you might slip and fall and hurt yourself, but, oh, well, that's just me, but Amanda, tell us, how you got from these other industries into home building. How did that come about for you?

Amanda Kruit: I wish it was a big epic story, but actually the agency I worked for prior to Hayden Homes, I had just moved back from Oregon and specifically settled back in central Oregon and they really wanted me to relocate to Reno with them.[00:03:00] You know, I just started dating my now husband and had just moved back here and so I really felt like it wasn't quite the right decision. So, as crazy as it sounds, I don't know, I may be dating myself now here, I don't know, but I actually answered a Craigslist ad for the marketing coordinator position. Yeah. Craigslist. I know, remember that? I was hired to take over for a gal who was actually going out on maternity leave as the then marketing coordinator position and the rest is history.

Growing up, my parents actually built their dream home, which was a log cabin on a beautiful river out in Eastern Oregon and so I got to help a little bit with that, and then, you know, as a little girl, I used to always draw the interiors of homes. We'd be sitting in church or something and that's what I would be drawing would be the interior. I would have like my beds and my couches and my kitchen and things like that. As a kid, I always thought I wanted to be an interior designer when I grew up and so when I actually went to college, that was my first major was interior design, and yeah, so I don't know, I think maybe it was fate or something that ended up bringing me to the industry, but I've been in love with it ever since.[00:04:00]

Greg Bray: Well, give us just a little bit of background about Hayden Homes, where you build, who your target buyers are, and some of that information, so we have that for context in our discussion.

Amanda Kruit: Absolutely. I work for the most generous company. It's called Hayden Homes and we are the largest privately owned home builder in the Northwest. We build in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho, and really our main focus is serving our communities and building homes in what we call underserved secondary markets.

One of our top home buyers, or home buyer personas, as we call it, is the first time home buyer. So, really our focus is building affordable, single family homes, and that's our bread and butter. We do have an array of buyer types, but again, that first time home buyer is really kind of our main focus and who we strive to build for.

 So, our why is really ingrained in everything that we do. A quote that we say pretty much in every meeting, and so it's really that we exist to give as you go. So, together, we build a strong community and lead fulfilled lives. I think as humans, we need to [00:05:00] feel a connection and know that what we're doing has a higher purpose, doing something that will live on after we're gone from this earth and I think that's truly what we at Hayden Homes, and many of us in the home building industry are doing.

I would love to unpack that mention that I said of the generosity for your listeners, if that's okay.

Greg Bray: Yeah. Go for it.

Kevin Weitzel: Please. Yeah.

Amanda Kruit: Awesome. Yeah. So, a little bit of history first, for all the history buffs out there.

This spirit of generosity as we call it, it's really vibrant in our culture and it originally came from our founder's mother, Virginia Watson, who taught Hayden Watson, who's actually the son of the founder, and his business partner, who's our CEO, Dennis Murphy, to live in a world where you give more than you get, and that spirit, I think, really, truly lives on throughout our team members and our company.

Just to give an example, you know, I think that generosity is really exemplified through our nonprofit First Story. So, I don't know if you guys are familiar with that organization or not. Have you heard the First Story?

Greg Bray: No.

Kevin Weitzel: No.

Amanda Kruit: Oh, awesome. So, First Story was [00:06:00] founded in 1998. It really is two branches of giving. It's funded through the sale of every Hayden Home and the generosity, of course, of our team members and our trade partners and a lot of the community members that we work with. First Story really works to address the affordable housing crisis. They have an integrated approach that's pretty cool. It gives individuals a hand up to home ownership through zero down, zero interest loans. You know, it allows people who otherwise wouldn't be able to really afford the gift of home ownership. That's the first arm of First Story and then the second arm is also really amazing and super cool.

It's through their giving grant program The giving grant program is something that we have in each of the regions that we build in. So, the funds from the giving grant program actually go to other organizations that are near and dear to our team members' hearts. It's varying different amounts and those funds really help to support the efforts of other organizations and the things they're doing to serve our vulnerable populations and those in need, so it's a pretty [00:07:00] cool organization, I think.

You know, in the great recession and things like that, I think a lot of companies stopped giving and one of the amazing things about Hayden Homes is, we call it give as you go. Whether it's in a downturn or an upturn, you know, we really focus on that giving spirit and that generosity, so it's pretty cool.

Greg Bray: That's awesome. Thank you, and obviously culture is very important to what you guys are doing and that's coming through in your background information about the company. It's very clear.

So, Amanda, I'm intrigued by your title. Not that digital marketing specialist is some special unknown title, but in my experience, however, it's a very unique title at a home builder, to have a staff and a team set up where you've got a specific digital marketing specialist there. So, I'd like to unpack that a little bit more if that's all right. Tell us a little bit about how you fit in to the marketing team, how the team's put together and where your role sits there.

Amanda Kruit: Yeah. Absolutely. We are actually structured in regions. So, we have a marketing manager and all of [00:08:00] the major regions where we build, and that allows us to really have that local presence and be able to make informed in market decisions. So, we really have boots on the ground in all of our major markets, and then we have what we lovingly call our support center, akr, corporate office, and that's really where it's important for us to support our team. So, not just marketing, but, you know, land and production and sales, et cetera.

My self, as you mentioned, I'm really focused on all of our digital efforts. So, I'm here to ensure that our brand and our message across all of the channels where we have digital is consistent with our brand message and our brand look and feel and things like that.

So, I actually work closely with our now VP of marketing and our corporate marketing specialist. We work together to help drive our larger campaigns and then they work with kind of print vendors and things like that to focus on brand consistency in all of our signage and things like that.

As the digital marketing specialist, you know, I'm really here to not only [00:09:00] help support the teams in region, but as my title calls it, I work to really grow our online presence across all of those channels, but Jack of all trades, if you will, in all the different positions I've had in the marketing department.

 One of the other things I really focus on is crossing the aisles with the other departments, crossing the aisles and not to get political. Yes, my title is digital marketing, but I also do a lot of project management and being able to cross the aisle and have those relationships with the other people in other departments, you know, we really make sure that everyone has a voice and that we're considering how those things that we're doing affect those other departments and vice versa when we're doing changes or big projects and things like that. I'm also the liaison between all of our many, many partners including ad agencies and syndication partners. So, like Zillow, BDX, realtor.com, that kind of thing.

Greg Bray: So, tell us a little more then, Amanda, about how you balance corporate versus local market needs, and [00:10:00] also how you balance in-house versus outsourcing with partners to meet all of those needs.

Amanda Kruit: Yeah. So, maybe starting with the first one of balancing corporate versus regional. It's kind of hard sometimes to balance all of it. There's always things coming in, all different directions and so we have a couple of things.

One is I meet regularly. So, I have one-on-ones with all of the regional marketing, the people in region. So,we go through and we look at how has that region performing digitally? Where are the sort of, not trouble communities, but the communities in need? We go through and we do audits because inevitably your syndication listings on Zillow and realtor.com always need love. So, we always do an audit on things like our syndication listings, make sure everything is looking good. Is it in the right location, how are your ads performing, that kind of thing, and then we always have a follow-up and a takeaway and make sure that we're tracking all of those efforts too.

For corporate, on that side of it, it's probably a 50/50 split. Again, I mentioned [00:11:00] I collaborate with our other corporate people to help drive the bigger campaigns. We just ran a support local campaign. On the corporate side, you know, it's kind of my job to make sure that, like I mentioned, we're consistent across channels, so our LinkedIn headers, Facebook headers, that kind of thing. When you see those posts and then you're going to our website or our internal systems, you're seeing that same message across all of the channels that we build. So, that's kind of how we balance and manage the sort of in region efforts in the corporate.

You'll have to repeat the second question.

Greg Bray: How do you decide what to keep in-house versus outsource with partners.

Amanda Kruit: Yeah, so that's a really awesome question. I think, when you're thinking about whether you're going to do something in-house versus outsourcing it, a lot of times it's like videos or photos and things like that. It's really important to be intentional about those decisions, and when we are deciding whether we're going to do something in-house or outsource it, oftentimes, we'll look at what's the return on investment of that activity and that [00:12:00] helps inform that decision.

So, for example something like, are we putting together maybe a home maintenance, how to video? It's really more focused on that post-sale maintenance of the home and that probably has a little bit lower ROI. It's more for that sort of education post-sale to help with some of our warranty things and so that's something that we would do in-house. Or another example would be, you know, are we doing a larger branding video that maybe is going to be more evergreen, is going to live a lot longer and maybe we want to leverage that on ads. Is it something that we want to leverage on YouTube for a lot longer, and that's probably something that we're going to outsource.

And then the other thing I think that's important to look at that we typically look at when we're deciding if we're going to do it in-house or out-house. OutHouse. Oh yeah. You like that?

Kevin Weitzel: Thanks for the plug. That's actually our motto. If you don't do it in-house, you bring it to OutHouse. That's right.

Amanda Kruit: Exactly. Is, number one, do we have the skillset to do it? Number two, do we have the equipment and number [00:13:00] three, do we have the time? Another example is Instagram Live. You know, that's something that we can do on our phone. It's usually quick. It needs to be a little bit more organic.

As I mentioned before that evergreen content, so like if we're getting photos or a virtual tour of a home that we want to use is what we consider corporate assets, so not just for that home, but on our website and syndication feeds and things like that. We'll think about the equipment time again, quality and those are things we typically outsource. We'll outsource those because you need to think about lighting and consistency and that kind of thing, and often we'll combine those with a Matterport virtual tour together, and so we have a couple of trusted partners that we use for those that not only have the tools, but also the skill set that we trust and we know the quality is going to be good.

To conclude, it's kind of a combination of return on investment on the project, what exactly we're doing, and then the tools needed to help drive those decisions.

Greg Bray: Amanda, you used a term in there that I'm familiar [00:14:00] with, but I'm not sure that everybody is. Can you define the term evergreen content for those who may not be familiar with it.

Amanda Kruit: For us, evergreen content is something that kind of lives on a lot longer. Like, an Instagram live is something that, you know, you're doing, maybe it's a finished inventory or something like that. Evergreen content is basically think of it as the term evergreen. So, you're going to use it a lot more in a lot more places and it's going to live on a lot longer. Tomorrow, maybe that home that you did the Instagram live for is sold, so that content is no longer useful, but evergreen content is something that you can use a lot longer and has a longer breadth and depth of the life cycle for it.

Greg Bray: So, you mentioned Instagram live. Do you guys have a favorite social media channel or one that you feel is performing better for you than some of the others?

Amanda Kruit: Yes. So, we are, of course, we're on all the major platforms. Instagram is really big for us and of course Facebook, I would say are probably our two main platforms that [00:15:00] we leverage. We're on LinkedIn, of course. We have a slightly different strategy for each of those.

Greg Bray: Okay. Wait. Wait. So, you mean, you just don't repost all the same stuff on every channel? That's not the strategy, right, unique strategies by channel. Okay. Okay. Just making sure I understood.

Amanda Kruit: Especially LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a lot more like job postings and givingand that kind of thing, and yes, we post some of the same content, so as in like the giving stories, but it may look different, like the creative and messaging and that kind of thing. We have a Twitter, of course, and Pinterest, and they're all changing so fast all the time, so I'm constantly testing slight variations of copy and images or stories on Instagram.

Like they just rolled out their new story link, which is pretty cool. I'm pretty excited about. So, I'm kind of testing that, to see how those are performing. Right now we're really focusing on being consistent with all of those, and, again, testing those to see what's working and what's not.

But I think more importantly, when you're asking about social media platforms what's working and what are we on, we've done a [00:16:00] lot of research with our buyers through focus groups and surveys to really understand where they are and how they're spending their time and that helps us be strategic on where we spend our time. So, it's important to know where your customers are and tailor, not only our limited time and our limited budget, to be where our customers are. The answer to that right now is Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn, of course. It's not to say we aren't aware of other platforms and we're not watching them, like TikToK, of course, and knowing at some point we may move on to TikTok. We're not currently active on there right now, but because we have done the research with our buyers and listened to where they are, when we feel it's the right time to move to other platforms, it'll be for the right reasons.

Greg Bray: When you talk about that research, what kinds of questions are you asking buyers? Are you just saying which platform do you use more or is it something more subtle than that, if you will, to find out where they're at and why they engage in a certain way?

Amanda Kruit: It's hard for [00:17:00] me to answer that cause I wasn't directly involved in the actual focus group. So, I'd hate to tell you something and make it up.

Greg Bray: Sure. No problem.

Amanda Kruit: Basically, I got the information from our VP of marketing who actually did the focus groups, and then I leverage, you know, that synopsis of it. So, I don't know exactly what they were asking. I think with pretty straight forward, like what social media platforms do you use? So, the answer was, Facebook and Instagram and Twitter.

Greg Bray: So, Amanda, when you guys are looking at your overall marketing activity, you've been with the company now for a few years, how have you seen that change and evolve during your time with Hayden Homes as far as what they were doing digitally a few years ago versus what you're doing now?

Amanda Kruit: That's, I think, one of my favorite questions that you've asked and something I've thought a lot about, and you're asking how that can enhance and improve customer experience, right?

Greg Bray: Well, and just how have you seen it change first. We'll get into customer experience, but how have you seen that change over the last few years and evolve just from where you focus from your [00:18:00] side?

Amanda Kruit: It's definitely changed a lot without being too specific. The majority of our activity and expenditures definitely have shifted to digital activities, which is different even than when I started eight or nine years ago. You know, we had a lot more, hate to say this on a digital marketing podcast, a lot more signage and newspaper ads and that kind of thing. You know, I think we, like most builders, have seen a pretty big shift, especially over the last year and a half of people being willing to do a lot more online that they weren't necessarily before for outside reasons, of course, and also relocating and things like that.

So you know, now we're offering a lot more virtual appointments and things like that. Which before, that was something that was like to our sales team, what a virtual appointment? No way, they have to come into the model. It's still pretty wild, but it's pretty cool to see some of our home buyers have never even set foot in our model homes. They've done everything virtually, [00:19:00] which, you know, obviously again with pandemic and things like that has changed the mindset of that. You know, with more than 90% of people starting their search online, we really started to hone in and dial our digital experiences and that content that we're providing and putting out there.

Greg Bray: So, let's dive into that customer experience question then. You mentioned working all virtual and not having to actually come visit. Are there other things in your sales process that you've seen change because of the technologies you've been able to use?

Amanda Kruit: Yeah, and I think, not just the sales process, but I think the overall buying experience. Hopefully, I don't get too emotional with this one, but buying a home is one of the most expensive purchases that a person may make in their lifetime. You know, it's a big decision and there's a lot of emotion that happens with that.

Not just because you're buying a home, but typically people are usually buying a home because they're having some big life event that happens. Maybe they're having a baby, so they need a bigger home, or they've just gotten engaged or, you know, maybe they're, selling their home that they lived in for 50 [00:20:00] years and they're wanting to move somewhere that's a little smaller. So, not only is the act of buying a home emotional, but it's usually tied to something emotional that's happening in your life and technology can be leveraged. and we are leveraging that, to really help create human connection.

To be a little bit more specific to help identify what we've done with technology is we've leveraged it to help identify and really map out the highs and the lows of the home buying journey and to help make the highs exceptional and make the lows, hopefully not quite so low. For example, there's a lot of waiting when you buy a home, you sign a contract, you've said yes to the address, like we like to say in marketing. We've got some cute signs that say that. I know, right? Our a marketing person in south Idaho came up with that one. It's pretty cute.

So, you know, You're excited. That's a high, right? Then what happens? Hopefully something.

Greg Bray: There's no windows.

Amanda Kruit: But no, there's so many cool things that happen, right? There's foundation [00:21:00] and dry wall and framing and roofing, you know, so many cool things happen. So, why not use technology, and this is what we're doing, to communicate with home buyers during that journey. So, things like weekly personalized communication, a video on what's happening with your home.

Some of the testimonials we've listened to and some of the stories I've heard is people get excited. They drive by their home, like, every single day, and some of the things that over and over, I hear that people buying our homes love is, that we send them weekly communication on the progress of their home, and I think that's pretty exciting and a pretty cool way that we, and hopefully other builders, are leveraging technology to help improve that. So, I think providing an exceptional customer experience, it's not just about the next best tech thing that you can utilize on your buyers, but are you listening to their story, like really listening? Then utilizing technology, like your CRM, to take notes on that. So, when somebody walks into a model or [00:22:00] your neighborhood, you know who they are. You're not like, oh, I've never seen you before. You're taking notes on that in your CRM, leveraging technology to help provide a wow moment. Maybe something that they weren't expecting because you've listened to them.

You know, one of the things that we do, that's pretty cool that's part of the journey is we do a pre-drywall, so it's just in framing walkthrough and it's an opportunity that our home buyers can write on their home. So, like when the drywall goes in, that I came in during the construction of this home and I've got a special message that only I know is behind those walls. I've got like chills now. That's pretty cool and, you know, leveraging technology to keep track of when those appointments happen and the things that are really important to those buyers.

You know, maybe it's a special gift for them that says, you know, we care about you, we listen to you, and so it's a personalized communication or gift when we actually turn the home over to them, and we leverage technology to help with all of those moments.

Kevin Weitzel: Feel free to roll with this one. I'm giving it to you. Consider it my [00:23:00] Christmas gift. Are you ready for this one? Are you sitting down?

Amanda Kruit: I'll sit down.

Kevin Weitzel: How about hosting roller skating on your foundation before, while you're waiting for the framers to show up?

Amanda Kruit: Oh, I love it.

Kevin Weitzel: Roller skating party. Boom!

Amanda Kruit: Love it.

Kevin Weitzel: I don't know. Sounds like a lawsuit, liability issue.

Greg Bray: And did you mean roll with it on purpose?

Kevin Weitzel: Yes. Yes. We did that when I bought my first home and they had this giant laminate beam that spanned the whole width of the home and they had us all write our names on it really cool. So, I thought it was awesome. We took pictures of it and stuff.

Amanda Kruit: Yeah. The other thing that they do, you know, not only is it an opportunity to celebrate the progress of your house and you can write a special message, but they also go through and actually show you where the plumbing is and the electrical and that kind of thing, so you get to kind of learn about the ins and outs and the quality of what's inside your home too.

Greg Bray: Well, Amanda, it's very clear that you guys have a focus on that [00:24:00] customer experience and really are taking that seriously with the desire to connect with the emotion of the whole process. You know, I think that's terrific. So, as you've done that, where are some times where, you know, it just didn't go the way you wanted it to?

Amanda Kruit: When you're implementing something and you're communicating that you're going to do weekly touchpoints on the progress of your home, you better be doing weekly touchpoints on the progress of the home with all of your buyers because if one person hears that you're doing that with their neighbor and they didn't get it, then they get really disappointed.

Greg Bray: There's the leap between the idea and the execution of the idea and getting everybody on board. Yeah, definitely.

Amanda Kruit: Yeah.

Greg Bray: Definitely. So, as you guys are planning for the future, what are, you mentioned, for example, we're not doing TikTok yet, but we're watching it. What else are you maybe watching and looking out for that you think you might have to get into in the future?

Amanda Kruit: Yeah. I mean, we're always watching [00:25:00] trends both inside and outside of our industry and I think one of the big ones that we're all watching, especially in our industry is the ibuying industry and what's happening with that. You know, the kind of shocker with Zillow that just happened where they got out of that. Being able to buy a home fully online is something that we've been watching and working on over the last couple of years. There's a lot of cool technology that I think we and other builders are utilizing and testing to enhance the home buyer experience. You know, we're looking and testing and working on visualizer tools and things like VR goggles, Facebook Oculus and things like that.

Greg Bray: Well, do you have any key places that you go to when you're looking for those ideas or places that you're watching for inspiration?

Amanda Kruit: Yeah. It's called OutHouse.

 You know, I listen to a lot of podcasts. Of course, industry specific ones are great. Like this one, of course, the team over at Do You Convert does a really great job with theirs. You know, I [00:26:00] listen to a lot of non-industry specific podcasts and read a lot of books, just to throw out a couple of them that I really like in case you or your listeners want to dive into them. There's one called Social Media Marketing with Michael Stelzner that I really like. They're always unpacking, you know, social media is changing all the time, so they're constantly having updates and talking about the latest and greatest with all the social platforms.

Another really great one that I really like is called Edge of the Web and that focuses specifically on SEO. So, everything that's constantly also changing with Google and SEO. They unpack that and have stories and things like that every week. I have a 30 minute commute each way during the day, so I use that as an opportunity to not only listen to podcasts, but I listen to a lot of audio books as well. It's really important to continue to take courses and grow in your field, whether that's, you know, digital marketing courses or, things like taking a project management course. I just wrapped one of those up and I think continuing to always [00:27:00] grow is really important.

Greg Bray: Well, any last words of advice you'd wanted to share today with those listening about how they can do better with their marketing?

Amanda Kruit: Absolutely. A couple of things. Of course, you've got to have fun at work. Remember to get out from behind your desk and build relationships with your team members and your bosses and your community and always look for ways to continue to grow. I think that's really important. You know, you may need to step out on the skinny branches a little bit to do that, like me here on a podcast for the very first time and get a little uncomfortable. I think trying new things and being willing to change is really important. Our industry and our buyer expectations are accelerating and changing a lot and so if you're not doing those things you might get left behind.

Greg Bray: So, just to be clear, is it me or Kevin that makes you uncomfortable? I just want to make sure we're clear.

Kevin Weitzel: I can answer that for you. It's always the me.

Greg Bray: Well, Amanda, we really appreciate you sharing some of your experiences with us today and taking some time [00:28:00] with us. If someone wants to connect with you and learn more, what's the best way for them to get in touch?

Amanda Kruit: Absolutely. So, either via LinkedIn is a great place to find me, or you can always email me at akruit@ hayden-homes.com.

Greg Bray: Well, thanks, Amanda. And thank you everybody for listening today to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine,

Kevin Weitzel: and I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse. Thank you.

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