Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit
Skip to main content
Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast Digital Marketing Podcast Hosted by Greg Bray and Kevin Weitzel

219 Sales and Marketing: Whose Job Is It? - Part 1 - Carol Morgan and Kimberly Mackey

This week on The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast, Carol Morgan of Denim Marketing and Kimberly Mackey of New Homes Solutions Consulting join Greg and Kevin to discuss the roles of home builder sales and marketing teams and how they can work together to drive success.

It isn’t always clear how sales and marketing roles fit together within a home builder. Kimberly says, “I think there's confusion because the jobs are so closely aligned. We need both and we need them working like a fine-tuned machine is really what needs to happen. But oftentimes people get confused. So, it's sales and marketing, not sales or marketing, and I think that's where people get a little sideways.”

For sales and marketing teams to be cohesive and strong, it may make sense for a home builder to have one VP who leads both groups. Kimberly says, “So, I believe that marketing should drive sales. But I believe sales needs to be the ultimate result therefore, it needs to be the top seat. So, given the choice, I love it when we have a VP of sales and marketing so that they're over both instead of having those two very diverged in a company. Because I often feel like then there can be that communication breakdown.”

However, it is challenging to find someone who has the expertise and time to lead both teams effectively. Carol explains, “I think if you have the right person in that capacity, that works very well. But I would argue that most people don't have both of those skill sets and they end up really only doing one job or the other, which can be very frustrating to whoever they're not really managing, right? And it's a huge job too, right? So, if the sales and marketing VP or whatever that highest title is really has both of those skill sets and has a big enough staff underneath them, it can work really, really well. But I've seen it go in both directions because part of it's just having enough time. If you have a huge sales staff and you don't have a really strong director of sales, then that sales and marketing VP is spending all their time there and not spending really any time on the marketing side.”

Listen to this week’s episode to learn more about creating home builder sales and marketing teams that support and complement one another.

About the Guests:

Carol Morgan:

Carol Morgan, founder and president of Denim Marketing, has built a career on listening to clients and personalizing plans to fit each client’s needs. Known for being reliable, creative, and authentic, she creates big-picture marketing strategy that utilizes public relations, advertising, social media, content, reputation management, and creative to send traffic to the client’s website and garner measurable results.  . . .

Carol has been attuned to trends in marketing and social media throughout her career, and she is a sought-after speaker. Carol is the author of four books on social media including her latest, “Social Media Marketing for Your Business.” She is the creator of the nationally-ranked and award-winning www.AtlantaRealEstateForum.com, Atlanta’s most popular real estate blog. Launched in 2006, let’s just say Carol saw the benefits of blogging before most people knew what blogging was. She is the founder and host of Atlanta Real Estate Forum Radio, a podcast that airs twice a week.

She has previously chaired NAHB’s Professional Women in Building council and Membership committee and served as one of NAHB Chairman Greg Ugalde’s 2019 advisors. Morgan currently serves as the Second Vice Chair of the NAHB Associates committee, a committee she will chair in 2022. She also serves on the newly formed Hammack Business School Board at Oglethorpe University. A graduate of Oglethorpe University, she is the recipient of the 2008 Spirit of Oglethorpe Award, PRSA Georgia Chapter’s prestigious George Goodwin Award, the 2009 Greater Atlanta Home Builders Association’s Associate of the Year and 2012 Council Chair of the Year. Carol holds the MIRM (Masters in Residential Marketing), CAPS (Certified Aging in Place Specialist) and CSP (Certified Sales Professional) designations from NAHB.

When she isn’t in the office, she can be found in the barn with the horses. Carol rides and competes in dressage with her Trakehner mare Johanna. She volunteers with Canine Pet Rescue. Carol also enjoys cooking and gardening.

Kimberly Mackey:

Kimberly Mackey knows what it takes to maximize your sales team.  She’s been there, done that.  As the founder of New Homes Solutions, Kimberly brings nearly 20 years of experience as a senior-level executive in the residential home building and real estate industry.  She has earned the reputation as being the “expert with real-world SOLUTIONS” in a competitive and rapidly changing sales environment.

Kimberly is an accomplished and sought-after national speaker and published author of many Sales and Leadership articles.  Her expertise is in creating Sales Management and Training Solutions for home builders across the country.  Kimberly’s experience includes working with Builders and Developers of all sizes – from the local/regional companies to the publicly traded national companies.

She also works with REALTORS® and Brokers from across the country and is the architect and director of the highly successful Preferred Builder Partnership program with Berkshire Hathaway Florida Properties.  This cutting-edge REALTOR®/Builder program generated $91 million in NEW home sales alone last year!

Her experience and expertise in the many areas of the building industry allow her to bring a unique perspective on how all of the parts should work together to create the whole.

She is active in the Sales and Marketing Council of the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB), currently serving as the 2nd Vice-Chair on the Board of Trustees. She serves on the NAHB Board of Directors; the Florida Home Builders Association (FHBA)  Board of Directors representing her local chapter of the Tampa Bay Builders Association and the Nature Coast Builders Association. She is a past Chair and Life Director of the FHBA’s Sales and Marketing Council as well as TBBA’s Sales and Marketing Council.  Kimberly was the 2017 Associate of the Year for the Florida Home Builders Association and the recipient of the SMC Member of the Year for 2008 and 2009. She is a member of the National Association of REALTORS®.


Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse.

Greg Bray: And we are very excited today because we've got a special episode going on here. It's part one of a special crossover event, and we're excited to have Carol Morgan and Kimberly Mackey joining us today. Carol and Kimberly, welcome.

Kimberly Mackey: Thanks for having us.

Carol Morgan: Thanks! Glad to be here.

Greg Bray: Now, I feel like, Kevin, that no introduction is necessary, but for those few people who don't know Carol and Kimberly, [00:01:00] we're going to let them give us just a minute to introduce themselves. So, Carol, why don't you go first? Give us just that quick background. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Carol Morgan: Absolutely. Well, thanks for having us here today. So, I'm Carol Morgan. I'm president and founder of Denim Marketing. We do all things content. So, if you are a home builder or a developer and you're looking for media relations, blogging, social media, email marketing, campaigns, or promotions, or you just need somebody to write your awards entries, give us a call.

Greg Bray: And Kimberly, what's that quick background intro for you?

Kimberly Mackey: Thanks again. I'm excited we're doing this crossover. So, my company is New Home Solutions Consulting. As I like to say, we are the company that you call when you want sales to be the engine that drives the train rather than what runs it off the tracks. So, I go in, do immersion consulting, make sure all your processes, procedures, your systems, everything supports predictable, profitable sales.

Kevin Weitzel: Well, everybody knows and you two definitely know because you've been on before, [00:02:00] where we're going next. I need to hear an interesting fact about you that has nothing to do with work or the home building industry. Something personal and we'll go with Carol first.

Carol Morgan: I get to go first. I'll have all sorts of interesting facts. I will share one that I think a lot of people probably don't know. We have a pet European starling His name is Chirp, and he can sing the AT&T iPhone ring. He makes the dong perfectly. He calls for my dog. He meows like a cat, and he can make the sound of every single door in my house. And it's quite scary at 2 a.m. when you hear the back door open, and you pause for a second and say, Hmm, was that the bird, or did somebody just break in? So, Chirp is quite the character.

Kevin Weitzel: It is something we didn't know.

Kimberly Mackey: I will attest to that. I've met Chirp multiple times, so, and it's always fun to get him to do stuff. Something that people don't know about me. I've been on and had to do this so many times now, I've got to think. So, I grew up in East Tennessee. I'm from a small town called [00:03:00] Etowah. I can talk like I'm from Etowah if you want me to. This is the way we talk when we're from Etowah, Tennessee.

So, many people are always confused. They're like, where are you from? They can't figure out my accent. They know it's somewhere in the South, but now I'm actually from a small town in Etowah, Tennessee, and of course, a graduate of the University of Tennessee. Go Vols.

Greg Bray: Well, bless your heart.

Kimberly Mackey: Exactly.

Greg Bray: Well, for those who don't know, Kimberly and Carol are the proud hosts of The Sales and Marketing Power Hour, which is why we've got them both here today because we are doing a special crossover episode where we're going to spend some time today talking together about sales and marketing. And then, we're going to get on The Sales and Marketing Power Hour coming up a week after this one goes live and kind of continue that conversation and see what we can learn from each other today.

So today, Kevin and I get to do the hard questions. And then next time, Carol and Kimberly get to take over and do the [00:04:00] hard questions or the easy questions for us. They're only going to be easy ones, I think.

Kevin Weitzel: It's the answering that's the hard part.

Greg Bray: All right. So, our topic today is Sales and Marketing: Whose Job Is It? Because sometimes there's some confusion there. Kimberly, why do you feel like sometimes there's confusion between sales and marketing?

Kimberly Mackey: I think there's confusion because the jobs are so closely aligned. We need both and we need them working like a fine-tuned machine is really what needs to happen. But oftentimes people get confused. So, it's sales and marketing, not sales or marketing, and I think that's where people get a little sideways.

Kevin Weitzel: And as a follow up should one drive the other or do they just have to work in unison? Oh.

Carol Morgan: Well, I think that's going to depend on who you ask.

Kevin Weitzel: That's why I asked Kimberly first.

Carol Morgan: Okay, Kimberly can answer first.

Kimberly Mackey: Okay. All right. Here I go. Don't throw things at me. Okay. So, I believe that marketing should [00:05:00] drive sales. But I believe sales needs to be the ultimate result therefore, it needs to be the top seat. So, given the choice, I love it when we have a VP of sales and marketing so that they're over both instead of having those two very diverged in a company. Because I often feel like then there can be that communication breakdown.

But when marketing is in charge, we do things like fire our OSC team and run sales based purely on analytics rather than really understanding what's happening in the field. And again, it takes both. We have to have the analytics, but we need to understand why. What's causing those analytics and what's driving those numbers and do they align with our goals? Which is, of course, to have those predictable, profitable sales. How's that? Is that close enough to politically correct?

Carol Morgan: I'm surprised it was pretty, pretty close.

Kimberly Mackey: It was hard. It hurt

Carol Morgan: It hurt.

Greg Bray: Now, Carol, you're a [00:06:00] little more on the marketing side, right? So, why is it called sales and marketing instead of marketing and sales? If marketing is driving the engine, shouldn't marketing be at the top of the list?

Carol Morgan: Golly, I agree with you on that, Greg. We should make that change immediately. Not only should we change it from The Sales and Marketing Power Hour to The Marketing and Sales Power Hour, but we should just change that universally because, without marketing, there would be no sales.

Kimberly Mackey: Why don't I have a bullhorn or something to make a loud beeping noise? Do we have sound effects?

Greg Bray: Well, all right. So, Carol, from your perspective, is it better to have a sales and marketing leader who does both, or is it better to have those roles split? What's been your experience?

Carol Morgan: Golly, I am torn on that. I think if you have the right person in that capacity, that works very well. But I would argue that most people don't have both of those skill sets and they end up really only doing one job or the other, which can [00:07:00] be very frustrating to whoever they're not really managing, right? And it's a huge job too, right?

So, if the sales and marketing VP or whatever that highest title is really has both of those skill sets and has a big enough staff underneath them, it can work really, really well. But I've seen it go in both directions. Because part of it's just having enough time. If you have a huge sales staff and you don't have a really strong director of sales, then that sales and marketing VP is spending all their time there and not spending really any time on the marketing side.

Kevin Weitzel: But can we all respectfully agree that owner of a company that has, and no offense to the fact that she's a woman, has a wife that loves the idea of selling homes and it'd be a fun little thing to do in her spare time and give her something to do, and then she's overseeing everything, can we all agree that that's probably not the best route to go versus having a sales leader or a marketing leader or a sales and marketing leader?

Carol Morgan: I think we could argue that on a whole lot of different levels, Kevin, including having your [00:08:00] wife do all of your interior design, unless she's actually an interior designer who's been trained may not be a good thing. Or, you know, having your husband do all of the, whatever it is. If you don't have the skillset, then it's probably best left to a professional.

Kimberly Mackey: With regard to the sex roles here, they could be reversed.

Kevin Weitzel: They can be, absolutely.

Kimberly Mackey: We need to keep our gender roles fluid if we could.

Kevin Weitzel: We have our Becky's and we also have our Lances out there, you know, it's just the way it is.

Kimberly Mackey: Okay.

Greg Bray: Kimberly, have you seen the same thing that Carol was mentioning, though that when the role is combined, that person tends to gravitate toward their personal background, whether they came from the sales side or the marketing side, and maybe give that side of the house a little more attention and love because they just get it more and understand it better?

Kimberly Mackey: I do agree with that. I think that's a very natural tendency. And I think Carol's point that whatever side is not your natural side, you need to have really strong support staff on that side. And it is true that you don't often find people who do both. When you [00:09:00] do, it is magic. It really is phenomenal.

But because we've brought these two disciplines up so siloed, not only in our industry, but really across industries, then I think that creates a little bit of that rub that wouldn't necessarily need to be there. Because really, it's everybody's job to support the marketing, the marketing messaging, all of that, and it's also everyone's job in a company to sell. But not everybody understands that or understands their role in that.

Greg Bray: So, then, is it the sales person's job to generate leads or are they simply supposed to be there waiting for the leads to come because marketing's out there doing their magic and push the button that says, make leads?

Kimberly Mackey: Can I take that one?

Carol Morgan: I was gonna say, I know you want that one. My answer is yes, but I'll let Kimberly give a longer answer and then I'll jump back in.

Kimberly Mackey: I think Carol and I are in agreement on this one. So, yes. Sales needs to drive their own traffic. In my [00:10:00] world, sales drives 50 percent of their own traffic in a traditional community sales environment. So, I'm going to add that little caveat in there because I'm getting ready to go to New Hampshire next week to work with a home building manufacturer that builds offsite timber frame, very expensive, gorgeous, beautiful homes. And so, the role of the salesperson becomes a little bit different because they're not out front facing in the sales environment.

But when your salespeople are out in the field, and they have the opportunity to generate sales by getting out into the community, getting involved in things, cultivating their realtor VIPs, all that grassroots stuff, building the referral base, then yes, 50 percent of the salesperson's job is to lead gen, and using those mechanisms.

The other 50 percent comes from the company and the company lead gen through their digital marketing efforts, through their messaging, through any of their other traditional marketing [00:11:00] efforts, word of mouth, and support of all of those grassroots efforts by the salespeople. So, that's my short answer. I could go on for two or three days about this, but I will zip it right now and let Carol have her opportunity here.

Carol Morgan: Yeah. I always appreciate Kimberly's perspective on it because so many times, I think we as marketers here, you know, Oh, well, I didn't get any leads. Today, you know, and then you ask, well, what are you doing for agent outreach? And what are you participating in? What are you as a salesperson doing to drive the ship too? So, I always appreciate a sales agent that's engaged and actively driving their own leads.

I also really appreciate as a marketer, a sales agent that will let us know where their best leads are coming from. Because we can see on a campaign that we're driving tons of traffic to a landing page or to a website or we've got 5,000 opens, 25 percent open rate of the latest email campaign. But what I can't see is, is does any of that convert to foot traffic. So, for me, you know, I [00:12:00] like to know as a marketer what's working and what's not working as well.

Greg Bray: To that point, then, if a salesperson is out there trying to generate their own leads, in today's world, can we really track that effectively to say, oh, well, what they did generated this lead because I saw him at the little league game and they came in the next week? Or is the reality I saw him at the Little League game. They asked me what I do for a living. I told them how great the builder is and how much fun and they told me they were looking for a house and then they went home and got on the website, and they actually filled out the form on the website.

And so, the salesperson had this influence on that lead but is the website getting credit for that lead because then they talked to the OSC and it looks like a web lead. Sometimes are our salespeople may be doing some of that work and not getting credit for it.

Carol Morgan: I think it's possible. Yeah.

Kimberly Mackey: Absolutely. But the salespeople will generally speak up and say, Hey, I just saw that person on Saturday, especially if we are measuring the right [00:13:00] KPIs, right? So, what are those key performance indicators and what is your salesperson doing? If our sales leadership is having that conversation and their planned encounters and on their scorecards every week to say you're responsible for generating X number of leads per week, what did you do?

And your salesperson should have an answer for that because they're expecting it, they know it's part of their role. It's a key performance indicator and they don't want a red on that week. So, they're going to say, well, Saturday I was out at the little league game and I talked to so and so and now I have an appointment with them. They went on the website and they registered with Susie, our OSC, but I talked to them on Saturday and told them to do that. Again, we have to go beyond just what the numbers are. What's the story behind the numbers is really going to be where our decisions are made.

Greg Bray: Okay, then. So, now we've got the sales army that's going, all right, we're going to create leads. Okay. And they start like doing HTML email formatting and sending stuff out and they [00:14:00] start printing their own brochures and all these handouts and they're ugly Carol.

Carol Morgan: Of course, they're ugly.

Kimberly Mackey: Yeah.

Greg Bray: So, should they be doing that level of marketing efforts to find new leads?

Carol Morgan: I would say no. So, if they need support materials, they should go to marketing and say, this is what I would really like. Does it exist? Can you help me? What can you create? So, that everything stays within brand and on point.

Kevin Weitzel: That is way more professional than the answer I thought that I was going to get from Carol, which was going to be a loud and vigorous hand slap. Because no, trust me, me being a sales monkey my entire life, I know what it's like and the benefit you can get from just leveraging the power that marketing brings to the table. The language that they use, the messaging, the on-spot branding that, you know, as a salesperson, you might think you have that game down, but the harsh reality is you probably don't.

Kimberly Mackey: Well, and you have to have your branding and communicate the branding with everyone, including your sales department. [00:15:00] We use these colors. We always have to have our fair housing logo. I'm going to go scream this from the rooftops. Fair housing, fair housing. You must have fair housing on everything, everywhere, all the time. If your logo is on it, it must have a fair housing logo on it. I don't know why people don't know this in our industry because they're required by law to know that. But things like that, if you have the template set up.

So, sales should be instrumental in communicating with marketing what they want to put out there, but marketing needs to make it pretty and make sure it's on brand and make sure that it supports the message that we're trying to get out there. Because yeah, I mean, sometimes somebody sitting out in the field, not really realizing everything else that's going on within the company can be well-meaning and put something out. Oh, heaven for the typos. Oh, the typos. The grammar. I mean, get some Grammarly people. Come on.

Carol Morgan: This is true.

Kevin Weitzel: Stop ignoring the squiggly line under [00:16:00] words.

Carol Morgan: Right.

Greg Bray: So, what we're saying is, is that there are some skills that the marketing team brings to the table in the creative messaging outreach type of skill set. Is that what I'm hearing?

Carol Morgan: Well, one hopes so. So, I would say, yes, that's what you're hearing.

Kimberly Mackey: I would agree with that.

Kevin Weitzel: So, Carol, let a question. When you're working for a builder and they're coming to you and wanting help and they need some upward trajectory of their numbers, you know, their analytics. Are you asking them for their sales team's input, or is this just based off of your assessment of what that company is, where they're going, what you see currently, and how you can make improvements? Or are you saying, what is it you're wanting to drive?

Carol Morgan: Yeah. So, that's an interesting answer. So, I really think it depends on who our contact is and how much access we have to the sales team. In a lot of cases, we don't have a whole lot of access to the sales team, but we are reporting to somebody who does talk to the sales team. In some cases, we're super lucky [00:17:00] and have some sales team members on our monthly calls as well as having the OSC participate in those.

And that's always nice because then we get real feedback of how are the messages resonating. How is that promotion actually performing? What can we do better from their perspective with the next one? Because, you know, it's kind of hard. We were talking about silos earlier in this conversation. You know, marketing can become a silo and just because we can create something pretty that we think is going to work and be effective, it's gotta work boots on the ground as well. I don't know if that answers your question or not.

Kevin Weitzel: It does. It does.

Carol Morgan: Okay.

Greg Bray: You mentioned the silos, Carol. And OSCs, I think, are in this really interesting middle, lost, no man's land in between the marketing and the sales team a lot of times.

Carol Morgan: Yeah.

Greg Bray: Often they end up reporting up the sales side because they're talking to the prospective customer. But they have a lot of feedback, I believe, for the marketing team to be able to find out what's really working. [00:18:00] Where are people getting confused? What messages are they not understanding? What questions are they asking that maybe our marketing could answer better upfront? How do we tap into that in a more consistent way? What have you seen work with builders?

Carol Morgan: I like it if they're on the monthly calls with us, which a lot of builders don't want to do you know, they don't want to take an hour out of their OSC's day. They want them answering, answering, answering those questions, or they just don't feel like it's their place to be on the marketing side. So, I think that's a little bit of a stigma we need to overcome.

Because you're absolutely right, Greg, most home builders, the OSC is kind of, you know, owned by the sales team, you know, not shared with the marketing team. So, it's a little bit of a mindset we need to change because they are absolutely the front line for so many of these home builders. They see and hear more from the consumers than any of the rest of us do.

Greg Bray: Kimberly, have you seen builders do that well?

Kimberly Mackey: Yeah, I like OSCs when they report to sales, just because I feel like we can make them part of the team, we can have a little bit more cohesiveness. But our dear friend Leah Fellows with Blue Gypsy Inc prefers that [00:19:00] they're from the marketing side of things, and for that very reason, because they become that bridge between marketing and sales. And she often works with the marketing professional more than she does the sales manager.

So, again, it's why it should be sales and marketing because I think we all need to work together. But, yeah, I do agree that OSC becomes that hybrid person. They're on the tip of the spear and they're seeing it from both sides and getting the feedback and often they're in a very unique position to be able to give us information before our analytics or any of our reporting or even our salespeople realize it.

Carol Morgan: So, you still think, I mean, you're saying sales and marketing, not marketing and sales.

Kimberly Mackey: Yes, I'm still saying the end result needs be we must get sales. So, no, you're never going to hear me deviate from that.

Carol Morgan: At least you've got the and right. You're not calling it an or.

Kimberly Mackey: I got the and right. Yes. It's not sales or right.

Greg Bray: Well, Kimberly, [00:20:00] another piece of the whole process between getting the sale is actually how do we design what it is we're going to sell. Who's deciding what type of product we want to actually go to market with? What type of buyer is the right fit for that kind of a product? Where should we price it compared to what else is out there? Is that a sales job or a marketing job or something else completely different?

Kimberly Mackey: Well, interestingly, in the larger companies that tends to fall in the land department, and not in the sales or the marketing department. So, which is so unfortunate that the pro formas are handled through that part of the company solely. I've always felt like you should have, again, land goes out, let's find the land, and then let's do our pro forma to see what fits, what works, who is that demographic. This if you build it they will come, I think we're kind of at the end of that.

We've had a little cycle here for the last five [00:21:00] years where yes if you built it they would come, but now we've got to go back to being able to do a pro forma. I don't know many sales and marketing professionals who still have those old-school skills of being able to do that. Even with our land guys, you know, a lot of this is, well, my gut says that this is going to work. We're still basing a lot off of our gut. Really you've got to be able to do that pro forma

Kevin Weitzel: From a person that has a large gut, I can tell you that it is not the best way to lead your life, is to lead with your gut But hey, I have a question for you. I'm gonna aim this one at Carol because this one drives me nuts as somebody that sells my wares to marketing talent out there. Why is it, I call it a disease, something is wrong with the mindset of home builders in the fact that they'll have year one, year five, from year one to year five, we've seen this amount of growth that is measurable and we can drive it all back to the marketing team.

However, why is it that when the times are good [00:22:00] that home builders will go, you know what? Hey, let's cut the budget a little bit. Let's get rid of our marketing person that made all this stuff happen. You'd never see them say, oh, well, belts need to be tightened. We're really tight. We're not selling anything. We have to get a marketing person. That's when they double down. But why is it when times are good, and I know it's a long question, but why is it when times are good that home builders feel that it's okay just to get rid of the person that is literally the person driving that ship in that regard?

Carol Morgan: I'd love to interview them and ask them that myself. The number of home builders that we saw during the COVID home sales rush that let go of OSCs and let go of their entire outsourced marketing department and slimmed down on their in-house department was shocking to me.

I won't say that we're really in a tough time now, but we are in a position now where builders are having to market again. There's builders out there that are having to kind of start over and rebrand and relook at their website and figure out, you know, what happened to everything in these last four years because they, you know, just kind of skirted along on [00:23:00] what they had in 2019 and haven't updated it since.

So, I guess I really don't truly understand the mindset. I think it's a little bit of a numbers game. They're like, Oh, well, here's a way we can save money. We're going to sell stuff even without them. Let's save some money. But it's short-sighted because you're going to make up for it whenever it's time to start marketing again. Right, Kevin? You're going to have to spend even more money to make up for the fact that you didn't.

Kevin Weitzel: Yeah. It takes so much to get that train moving again.

Greg Bray: Well, Kimberly, where does the sales team fit in from digital outreach, social media activities? What do we want to allow them to do from posting on LinkedIn or something like that? And what is not their spot to play in that marketing should only be doing?

Kimberly Mackey: That's a tough one because of course with the bigger builders that I work for and the publicly traded builders those guys have such strict rules that sales is just like well, forget it. I'm not gonna do anything because marketing won't allow it. They [00:24:00] won't allow us to do this or that or the other. We miss a lot of opportunities there. I understand. We've got to have brand and maybe I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here.

We do have to have brand. We have to support that. But we also need to give salespeople a job to do. So, get those customer testimonials. You're the one that built the relationship with these people. You know their story. Get those video testimonials. Get your salespeople out there doing those video walkthroughs and being out in the community with the videos doing those kinds of things because it doesn't have to be a professional production all the time when we're talking about social media.

Give them parameters. Yes, absolutely. Give them parameters and things that they can and can't do. When I'm going in, especially with the smaller companies where we can control this, and maybe they don't have as much of a social media presence, we create a calendar and we have topics that are signed for every day. And the salespeople go in and they pick which day they're going to do, and they're required to [00:25:00] pick so many social media topics that they're going to cover and everybody knows that's their day that they're going to do it.

Yes, it goes back and it goes through an approval process. And maybe they're not the ones who are actually doing the posting, but they are providing the content and sending it back to us so that we have that rich content, that person about town kind of look to things that makes it feel more real and more genuine.

Dogs, animals, get pictures of dogs in the community, and at their events and the things that they're doing to drive their own traffic. So, realtors of the week, you know, that sort of thing. People out on the home site and not just the static, somebody standing there holding a sold sign, but, have fun with it. I like it when people are jumping up in the air or doing something really crazy or spray paint a shovel gold. I don't care. Just do something fun.

Kevin Weitzel: I personally find the most entertainment out of those videos that are shot that make it look like they're being held at gunpoint, and you must answer the question that you enjoyed buying this house [00:26:00] or we're going to murder your family or whatever it would be. Those ones crack me up because it looks like somebody in a witness protection program. Yes, we loved our buying of this house. Our salesperson was great.

Carol Morgan: Yeah, that's hilarious.

Kimberly Mackey: We do have to give a little bit of a shout-out to a client that Greg, Kevin, you, and I all share with Smart Dwellings and their historical perspectives and dressed up in their costumes for the names of their floor plans.

Carol Morgan: Oh, that's great.

Kevin Weitzel: They do and it's cool.

Kimberly Mackey: They are hilarious. So, they do a good job with that. So funny. So different. You just don't have to be so cookie-cutter, people.

Kevin Weitzel: I'm actually glad you mentioned that. So, let's talk about budgets for just a quick second. Because if you took a company like Smart Dwellings and they took a percentage of their sales to fund their marketing campaigns, Carol, where would they start? Again, they're competing against, well, not in their market, they're not competing like a KHov. But a KHov, just the marketing budget from one community in a KHov can outdo the whole builder.

Carol Morgan: Absolutely. Especially if you're a smaller builder and you're spending that 1 percent or maybe you're even [00:27:00] spending 2%. That 2 percent still could be a lot less than KHov's 1 percent or maybe even KHov's half a percent. So, it makes it tough. Got to spend smartly.

Kimberly Mackey: And stand out. Your messaging needs to really resonate. I think we're so afraid to do anything fun. Like, we think this is brain surgery or something and it's not. I mean, home building is fun and exciting and there's so many stages and steps to it. Construction is cool. I know I'm a construction geek, but man, construction is cool.

Carol Morgan: It's very cool.

Greg Bray: Well, Carol, can you give that small builder out there that's listening just a little bit of assurance that they can still compete in this world?

Carol Morgan: Oh, they absolutely can, and I think that they have some advantages over the publicly traded builders, because they are, as Kimberly alluded to, the publicly traded builders run a really tight ship on social media. And I won't name any names, but you can go look at a lot of national, you know, publicly traded builders' social media pages, and it's just what I call lifestyle fluff. It really [00:28:00] doesn't tell you anything about what they're doing. It's just really, really pretty, and pretty is great, you know, and they've got enough other marketing going on that they're going to drive the traffic.

But the smaller builder has the opportunity to really drive traffic. So, you're building a new model home. Maybe while you're in the framing stage, you walk through with a video camera and point out some of the really cool things going on behind the walls, you know, that you use this type of insulation or you're using this type of pipe and why. And then, You know, you can follow along kind of the day in the life of. You can make it fun.

The nice thing about being a privately owned builder is you can decide fun is allowed. So, you could have a lot of fun. You can get your agents involved. I love it when agents are involved because they are again the boots on the ground. You know, maybe Denim's working for a client in California, we actually do have a client in California. I'm obviously not in California, you know, I'm in Atlanta. So, I love it when the realtors send us pictures, you know, pictures with happy homeowners or a clip of a video or a photo [00:29:00] that's in construction stages. So, they absolutely can get involved.

Making it fun is really the key, and I think that's the biggest thing that a small builder can do, is they can make it more about the homes, more about the community, you know, more about their relationships in that community. And then, you know, maybe they launch a fun promotional campaign that has a creative aspect to it. You know, I always like to say that if Flo from Progressive made insurance fun, and the Gecko from Geico can make insurance fun, why on earth can't we have a little bit of fun with home building? So, you know, find some reason for people to talk about you, then they're going to remember you.

Greg Bray: I'm just trying to think of what Kevin could do with a gecko or something that, that would be more fun.

Kimberly Mackey: Do not give him ideas. Do not.

Carol Morgan: Exactly. Kevin, I could tell Kevin, he's scheming.

Greg Bray: He did have a talking cookie not too long ago.

Kevin Weitzel: I still have a talking cookie.

Kimberly Mackey: Are you kidding me? That cookie hasn't disintegrated yet?

Kevin Weitzel: Nope.

Carol Morgan: That scares me.

Kevin Weitzel: I keep him safe somewhere in a [00:30:00] drawer. I can't find them right now, but yeah.

Carol Morgan: It must have a lot of preservatives in it. Do not eat the cookie.

Kevin Weitzel: Not now. Now It's almost a year and a half two years old Senior Pablo was his name

Kimberly Mackey: That wouldn't work in Florida. That thing would have grown so many things.

Carol Morgan: It would have mold.

Kevin Weitzel: We have a dry heat here in Arizona, so they wind up just staying kind of just dry.

Carol Morgan: That's so scary.

Greg Bray: Well, Carol and Kimberly, this has been a great discussion. I feel like we could go on for like another hour or so or more.

Kimberly Mackey: And we should.

Carol Morgan: Yeah. We could have a very powerful marketing and sales power hour on June 5th.

Kevin Weitzel: And sales. Can we call it that through the entire episode?

Carol Morgan: I think we should.


Kimberly Mackey: We are not calling it that. I'm going on strike if you change that.

Carol Morgan: Well, the marketing has to happen first. So, I think sales should be last. Marketing and sales.

Kevin Weitzel: Marketing and sales, right?

Greg Bray: So, Kimberly, if somebody wants to join us on part two, how do they find out the webinar link and everything for the June 5th event?

Kimberly Mackey: Well, the best way to do that is just to go on Facebook and [00:31:00] search Sales Marketing Power Hour. Join our group on Facebook and we will have the link on there for everybody to see. They can register. And the thing about The Sales and Marketing Power Hour is that we do it live. So, we have a studio audience, Zoom audience, webinar audience, and you guys can join us.

You can ask us your questions. You can try to trip us up. You can comment on Kevin's cookies or his hair or whatever you want. And I promise you, he's a big boy. He can take it. So, join us live on June 5th at noon, which is a Wednesday. So, make sure you join us and harass us, and ask us all your questions about whether it should be marketing or sales or sales or marketing. Maybe we'll take a live poll.

Kevin Weitzel: We should do a poll on that.

Carol Morgan: I'm going to redo all the graphics in the meantime, so it will be The Marketing and Sales Power Hour.

Greg Bray: All right, everybody. Well, normally we wrap this up, but this is a to be continued situation. So, we are not going to act like we're finishing. We're just going to invite you to [00:32:00] get registered and join us again a week from now on June 5th. Get registered for that and be able to ask your questions and help us continue this conversation. Thank you again to Carol and Kimberly for being with us. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse. Thank you.

Nationals Silve Award Logo
Winner of The Nationals Silver Award 2022

Best Professional
Development Series

Digital Marketing Podcast Logo Logo

Hosted By

Blue Tangerine Logo
Outhouse Logo