This week on The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast, Greg and Kevin review the 2023 Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit, which included two full days of interactive sessions, small group roundtable discussions, expert presenters, OSC education, and much more.
2023 Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit Recap
Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.
Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with Zonda and Livabl.
Greg Bray: And we're excited today, everybody to have a special episode. Kevin and I are on a high right now, cause we just got back from this year's Home Builder Digital Marketing Summit, and we just want to share all kinds of enthusiasm and excitement and the things that we learned. Kevin, how was it?
Kevin Weitzel: I was in a unique position this year because, in years past, obviously I've been a co [00:01:00] host when I was over with OutHouse, and I just want to give you kudos this year, both to the Blue Tangerine and the OutHouse team, because it was a fantastic event. The venue was perfect, the timing was amazing, the schedule stayed on board. There was just a pinch of rah rah, you know, I'm not a big rah rah fan. There was a pinch of that rah-rah. But most of it was just all educational, informative, and engrossing. It was a fantastic event just all in all. So, kudos to the Blue Tangerine and OutHouse team for putting on a fantastic event that Livabl was proud to sponsor.
Greg Bray: I appreciate that. Just for the full record, that wasn't me, right? That's our team that worked really hard. They definitely put in the time, put in the effort, and made it a lot easier for those of us standing up in front to know what we're supposed to be doing.
And of course, we had some amazing presenters. We had some great sponsors like Livabl who were there, and it just made it all come together. A great energy in the room, a couple of rooms. We had some breakouts and things. Kevin, if you had one big takeaway, what was kind of your biggest aha [00:02:00] moment while you were there?
Kevin Weitzel: You know, and not to steal any thunder from our key kickoff speaker, Teri Slavik-Tsuyuki, but the human factor. The fact that all the efforts that we put into trying to wow people into product A, B, or C, and using various methodologies, and different digital solutions, the fact that it all falls back into we have to be human. We have to stay infused in the process and not just expect people to click buttons to make everything happen. That was my key takeaway.
Greg Bray: I agree with that one. That was a big one. Teri, of course, brought her A-game and just wowed people. For those who haven't met her yet, you need to because she really has a great message about mixing the technology with the human element. I really love that message. It's not something that everybody thinks of when you think about going to a digital marketing summit, that we're going to talk about human interaction, right?
You think we're going to talk all about the digital interactions, and we did, but that piece of making sure that we stay human, and we [00:03:00] remember that we're talking to people with all of our messaging and that people ultimately do prefer to deal with people and be able to accomplish what they're doing. I completely agree with you, Kevin. That was just a great takeaway, a great message, and she really kicked it off with a bang with that, for sure.
Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely.
Greg Bray: So Kevin, just kind of thinking about who else was there. After Terry, we heard from Jimmy Diffee from The Bokka Group. Jimmy, of course, has been an expert in that customer journey for many years and really talked a lot about it, and he shared digital touchpoints that can happen in that customer journey. And frankly, Jimmy had so much there. I wish we could have given him more time. What are your thoughts on Jimmy's presentation?
Kevin Weitzel: I've had the luxury of working with Jimmy and the team over at Bokka on several occasions, both in conjunction with clients and also just collaboratively coming up with the journey mapping process itself. Honestly, the effort that their whole team puts into journey mapping is enviable. The fact that they help builders get dialed [00:04:00] into the whole process. Because you could be a builder and think you're connected, but not really know how your specific clients are connecting to you.
Greg Bray: Yeah, there was certainly a lot of understanding about that journey, and it's a lot more complicated than you might think if you haven't done some of that mapping process. That's one of the things I have learned from Jimmy, not just in this presentation, but in our other conversations, is that there's a lot of detail if you want to get into it.
Kevin Weitzel: But then guess who came up next, Greg? You were on the stage with Bassam from AtlasRTX. That one was actually really interesting. I loved your guys' presentation. AI, how you can benefit from it. How to manipulate it and utilize it.
Greg Bray: Bassam has been talking about AI before most of us even knew how to spell it. He's a computer scientist, which is a little unusual in the marketing world. And he's not just a programmer, right? He's a computer scientist. This guy gets in deep in the understandings behind it, but yet he's able to explain it in a way that the rest of us totally feel comfortable and understand what he's talking about.
[00:05:00] One of the things he said that really resonated is he's very optimistic about the potential of AI, not just now, but in the future. He doesn't see it ruining society, you know, the robots taking over and destroying everything, right? Bassam shared that we need to embrace it and recognize that there are tools that can help make our jobs easier.
There will be some adjustments of the kinds of work we do, but it's not going to take humans out of the process anytime soon. That was a great message. And I loved being able to pepper him with questions as part of that and not make it such a PowerPointy type presentation, but rather just have a conversation about it because I think we're able to pull out more from him by asking him questions. So, I enjoyed that conversation.
Kevin Weitzel: Well, not only that, but when you have somebody that is so heavily intertwined with their company, like Atlas RTX, that has a service and something to basically pedal, if you will, the fact that he stays pretty much about as far away from that as you can get, but still tackle the concept of AI is very welcome. [00:06:00]
Greg Bray: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. He's got a lot to offer and encourage you to check out Bassam and learn more about what he's up to.
Kevin Weitzel: Now, Greg, there's another thing that Blue Tangerine and OutHouse does at this summit versus other summits and that's those round tables. We get a lot of positive feedback with the round tables. Because I know I love them.
Greg Bray: Definitely were the highlight last year of the event. This year we doubled the number of sessions that we did so that people could go to four round tables instead of just two. And I agree with you, Kevin, that the feedback is amazing on those where people feel like they get to meet each other in a different way. They create friendships.
And they get to focus on a particular topic and engage with someone from our sponsor set that has some expertise in that particular topic, who can kind of guide the conversation, but yet not turn it into just a sales demo or a pitch, that it's really supposed to be that group discussion.
Again, we looked at some of the feedback surveys already. And they're like, Hey, we wish we had more time in the roundtables is what they've already said, that [00:07:00] the discussion was just getting started and we had to move to the next one. And I'm like, well, I'm sorry, we've got a schedule to keep. I'm on schedule. But yeah, the roundtables we did some each day, and it was that opportunity to really get to know people.
And I think that is something that makes it different from some of the other events where you're just kind of sitting back in the crowd and kind of, you know, listening and taking notes. Now, you're in the conversation, right up on a particular topic with folks, and you get to learn from each other and you get to contribute and share.
Because there are people in this room that come to attend who actually have a lot of experience and a lot to share. We don't need to believe that just because we're standing in front of the room holding a mic that we know everything. There's a lot of people in this room that have stuff to share and that's what we want to tap into is that collective knowledge.
So, Kevin, one of the other things that we did differently this year is we added this online sales counselor track. So, for part of the day we were all together with marketing and OSCs, and then for another half of the day each day we split up and the OSCs went to be trained by Leah Fellows from Blue Gypsy [00:08:00] Inc. and from Heidi Schroeder at ECI Lasso. And then we kept the marketing folks in the room for some of those other presentations.
So, I did not get a chance to attend the OSC presentations because I was busy with the marketing side, but again, all the feedback I heard there was that it was great training, that Heidi and Leah really brought some useful information and structure and ideas that they could take back home immediately. Did you get any other insights into the OSC track at all from folks you talked to?
Kevin Weitzel: A couple. I actually talked with a couple of the gals from Century. They said that it was just absolutely fantastic, that there were actionable items that they're taking home, not just some feel-good information, truly is actionable items that they can actually put into play. The other thing was, is that I don't know if you actually got up to the room, but man, the place that they were in was incredible. It had a view of the skyline. It was amazing.
Greg Bray: A fabulous venue for sure. Meanwhile, back in the marketing track.
Kevin Weitzel: Well, one of my favorite people on the planet got up on stage next, and [00:09:00] that was Carol Morgan of Denim Marketing.
Greg Bray: Well, Kevin, what did Carol share with us?
Kevin Weitzel: Humanizing your content. You know, making sure that you're not just looking at all the SEO, Google stuff, and just plugging in the bare bones minimum of what you have to do, that it really needs to be human and reusing some of that content as well. Because I listened and I was taking notes too, but you can take that old blog content, revitalize it, use the same URL, and maintain that SEO search.
Greg Bray: Yeah, Carol's suggestions for reusing and updating existing blogs is actually really powerful because it reduces some of that burden on the content creation team and it generates new traffic because you're able to continue to expand these existing articles or update them with the latest and greatest information. And I was really happy that she was able to share that with everybody because it's something that isn't always talked about. You always feel like you have to create new stuff all the time.
Kevin Weitzel: It's basically a [00:10:00] concept instead in letting your moss die in the sunlight, making sure that it's an evergreen. How you like that, Carol? I hope she's listening. She usually does. She's actually pretty good about listening. But anyway.
Greg Bray: Let your moss die in the sunlight.
Kevin Weitzel: Don't let your moss die in the sunlight. Turn it into an evergreen.
Greg Bray: Got it. Got it.
Kevin Weitzel: Keep it updated.
Greg Bray: Yeah. There you go. Well, after Carol, Kevin, I saw people's pens flying. I mean, they were scribbling notes like crazy. Did you notice that as well?
Kevin Weitzel: Well, you had a power trio up there. It's like having AC/DC on a stage, except instead of it being Australian rockers, it was like Nerd Fest 2023. You had Cabe Vinson, Cory Dotson, Mila Sorensen, all from the team over at Blue Tangerine. I'm surprised paper didn't catch fire with the amount of writing that was going on with the pens.
Greg Bray: When we planned this summit, one of the things we said is we want to make sure that some of these sessions really give people stuff they can go home and use the next day when they get back to the office. And this was one of those that really nailed that because they ran through [00:11:00] a list of a bunch of tools that we use every day.
And each of them pick tools that they use in their jobs as marketers and web developers and SEO experts. These were tools that a lot of people weren't familiar with. Many of them were free or very inexpensive. Some of them were just little browser plugins that can make a difference, and they just ran through this list with a minute or two per. Again, people were writing like crazy, even though we told them, hey, you'll get a copy of the slides later, you don't have to scribble it all down. They couldn't wait, they couldn't wait, they had to write it all down.
Kevin Weitzel: Oh, yeah.
Greg Bray: We had a newcomer at the end of the day on the first day that hadn't been with us before Melissa Galland, from DO&Be Agency. And Melissa has been someone who's been in the home building world on the builder side for many years and has now moved over to the agency side to help builders.
And she really had some interesting ideas on building out that strategy. Having been in the builder's shoes, and now from the marketing perspective to be able to share kind of how do you build out your budget, how do you build out [00:12:00] kind of your plan for the year and what should be included? I felt like there were some really good nuggets buried in there. I mean, what kind of takeaways did you see from Melissa?
Kevin Weitzel: Honestly, one of the key things I always take away is her personality and just her genuinality. Genuinality? Genuineness. I don't know what the word is, to be honest with you. It's one of those two words. That's the problem with doing a podcast with a guy that's a mouth-breathing knuckle dragger there, Greg. You're going to have to deal with some made-up words every once in a while.
No. One thing I took away from what she says, and this is just something that kind of sticks with me, is that you have to need to learn how to leverage your mistakes. So, when you're A/B testing, or if you try a new concept, that you can leverage the lessons learned from a potential mistake and then flip it to make it a strength that you can utilize in future endeavors.
Greg Bray: Yeah, that's a powerful takeaway because we don't always know what's going to work. And a matter of fact, we usually don't know what's going to work in marketing. And we have to be able to figure out how to try something and have the courage and the confidence to try things that might [00:13:00] not work without feeling like, Oh, we're going to get our budgets taken away or get fired or whatever terrible thing can happen if we try things that don't work.
Well, of course, Kevin, at the end of the first night, we had a fun networking reception slash, could you call it a party? I don't know if you call it a party. Would you call it a party?
Kevin Weitzel: I had so many fantastic conversations at the Thirsty Lion. To get a little plug in there, it was sponsored by Livabl. But no, it was fantastic. The food was great. There was some cocktails, of course, and iced teas being drank, but it really came down to, there was just such meaningful conversations throughout the entire room.
I flit about like a butterfly myself. So, I go from conversation to conversation, just kind of have a good old time. But it was really just down to earth and fun, and it was interesting to hear that not only were there personal conversations, but also peppered in was people discussing some of the content that they had heard that day. So, pretty interesting.
Greg Bray: Yeah, and Kevin, they heard it here first. Kevin Weitzel, social butterfly.
Kevin Weitzel: Flitting about, baby.
Greg Bray: Flitting [00:14:00] about. Well, and I think, Kevin, one of the things is we were supposed to be done at 8 o'clock, and people were still there almost till 9. They didn't leave. So, that shows that people are having a good time and getting to know each other, and enjoying the opportunity to just hang out and make friends. Again, it's not a pressure sales-type environment, just a chance to meet folks and get to know each other. And we do appreciate Livabl helping make that happen
Kevin Weitzel: Now, I was super excited and that's why I went to bed at, I don't know, maybe 10 o'clock to make sure that I was up bright and early to get to that 5k run that Ed's team over at Audience Town put on. However, for some reason I overslept. I didn't make it to the 5k run. I don't know why. Oh, I forgot. I don't run.
Greg Bray: Well, I think that we found out that a lot of people don't run. That's one thing we learned, but Hey, the ones that did had a great time. They were back on time for breakfast and they seemed to have a good time. And Ed surprised everybody who ran with some special gifts [00:15:00] afterwards. So next time, maybe you should show up and you might get some special gifts.
Kevin Weitzel: That is a fact. Plus the gift of living a healthier lifestyle.
Greg Bray: That's right. The gift that keeps giving.
Kevin Weitzel: One that, you know, destroys your meniscus in your knees and all the other things that running does. No, I'm just kidding. I just don't like running cause I'm gravity-challenged. Plus they have no oxygen in Denver. I don't know if you know that, Greg, did you experience any of that?
Greg Bray: Running in Denver is definitely different. Climbing the stairs in Denver is a little different. Why can't I breathe? It's definitely something that you can notice until you're there for a little bit. But Kevin, one of the things that we did as a way to get people engaged, we had some fun games. And we used a tool called Kahoot. And if you have not Kahooted, then you're missing out. I think people really got into it. At first, they were kind of, Oh, what's this? By a couple of questions in, and once we told them what they could win, everybody was totally focused.
Kevin Weitzel: Greg, it was a fiery competition, fiery competition. And the leaderboard was flipping and flopping left and right. I loved it.
Greg Bray: Yeah. And we had folks winning prizes that some of those top prizes were worth several [00:16:00] hundred dollars. It was a lot of fun and some people went away very happy that they'd come. And once we got done having fun, we got back into some great content. I really loved Stuart and Cory. Stuart from Outhouse and Cory again from Blue Tangerine sharing the way that you can use those interactive tools like floor plans and tours and site plans and things to engage emotionally. Stuart has always been one who really believes in that emotional engagement with the website. What did you learn from Stuart that, I mean, I know you've heard him talk before.
Kevin Weitzel: Yeah, I mean, we've been best friends for decades. So, obviously, I kind of know, and I even remember back in the early nineties when they came up with the IFP, you know, concept, and one of the coolest things was that not only is it just a tool that you can use in a pre-fashion, when you're shopping for a home, but even post-sale. So, when somebody is excited, waiting for their home to get finished, they can utilize a space planning tool to give a plan-o-gram to their moving company. Hey, I want everything moved in exactly like this printout.
But what was even more interesting than that, [00:17:00] was when Cory actually illustrated the various ways that you can elevate how you implement that digital tool in your website. You know, it wasn't just, Oh yeah, drop it on your website and it should perform. No, it was, here's how you can put it on your website. Here's one way you can improve it. Here's another way to improve it. Here's another way to elevate it. I think he had about seven or eight steps on how to further ingrain that into the actual buying process versus just plopping it onto what do you call it? A Franken site? Just plopping it onto a Franken site.
Greg Bray: Yeah, it definitely is something that a lot of builders don't pay attention to, right? They spend all this money on these assets and then you can't really find them on the website. Cory gave some great examples of how to put it on the menu, how to make it more visible to the user, how to drive it and explain it, you know, with some tips on explaining what you're supposed to do.
Frankly, Kevin, the one that was, I thought so simple, but so powerful was just removing some of the other distractions. Like taking away the static floor plan image and just [00:18:00] leaving the interactive one and taking away the PDF because they can print it later anyway, you know, they don't need that. I was like, man, you sit here and you kind of go, well, duh, but yet most people don't do that. And those were some great insights.
Kevin Weitzel: I'm actually blown away at how often I see a little thumbnail of a floor plan when you click that it just opens up. Well, why not have it open up to your IFP? That's what you spent the money on. You know, if they want to see a bigger image of it, they can see it on the IFP. So, I totally agree.
Greg Bray: Yeah, I loved those insights from both of them. And then we had Karen Bonder from Livabl sharing a sneak peek at something that they're going to have at IBS. And I felt really honored that we got to see it before they're showing it at IBS. I thought that was pretty cool.
Kevin Weitzel: It's pretty cool. What she was showing was the concept home, and that was about eight sponsors, I think, that basically covered that. And then there were five builders that. Basically, it's taking a home and showing the various modular ways that you can build it and configure it based on the needs or the dollar amount that you need to hit for your home or the square footage you need to hit it for your home, the [00:19:00] lifestyle of your buyer. Tons of flexibility, tons and tons of flexibility.
Greg Bray: I thought that those concepts were really intriguing because it wasn't just about showing off a virtual tour type of technology. It was about what do people want in their home in the future. What are the features that people really care about? Like an open courtyard in the middle of the home with the glass walls. That was just really cool. The open stairway to have more light coming through instead of just this dark stairwell. Having the garage place that was flexible so that if you didn't put the car, it could be like outdoor entertainment space.
I mean, there was all kinds of little nuances here that just really opened up the feel of that home, and it was really intriguing. Folks who are going to be at IBS, I would encourage you to go check it out. We'll have to find out where and when they're going to be showing that off, but Zonda obviously put a lot of work into that.
Kevin Weitzel: Yeah, it was a big collaboration, huge.
Greg Bray: Now Kevin, now we get to your big moment. Your big moment [00:20:00] came right after that. You were there with a panel. It was creative. You guys brought some new ideas. Tell us what you were trying to accomplish there with that special idea.
Kevin Weitzel: All right. In full transparency, when Erik told me what the concept was, I was like, Oh, I can't do this, but I'm going to do it because Erik told me to and asked me to. However, we had Carol Morgan from Denim Marketing. We had Tim Curtis from CohereOne, Erik Martinez from Blue Tangerine, and myself. Each one of us took on one of those vital roles of the buyers that were determined in the Online Buyer Research Study that Blue Tangerine had done.
Greg Bray: We found that there were four different groups there, attitudinal groups, that all have some different focuses. And I thought it was pretty interesting the way you guys kind of played each of those roles and you all had t-shirts that had the different names on them, which was great. I mean, hey, how often you come to these things and people have costumes, right? And you even like changed hats.
Kevin Weitzel: I did. I changed hats. I was a narrator and a buyer group. But what was really fun [00:21:00] about it was that it wasn't just us reading through a report and putting up a PowerPoint slide and showing the different stats. We were actually giving the stats as well as some of the pain points, the processes, the expectations of those various buying groups.
Greg Bray: There's a lot to unpack there. And if somebody is not familiar with that research study, you can get a free download of the executive summary at the Blue Tangerine website. Should really be a prominent link on the homepage to find that. So, please check that out if you haven't, because there's a lot of good information there. And you guys just scratched the surface on some of the insights that are there for that one.
Kevin Weitzel: Oh yeah. Yeah. The report of the executive summary is fantastic. I actually read it, Greg.
Greg Bray: Nice.
Kevin Weitzel: I read something.
Greg Bray: Nice. Well, of course, while we're doing all this, our OSC friends were off doing their magic. And I really respect OSCs and the role that they play in making sure that the web leads are nurtured and responded to and get pulled into the sales funnel and process. And [00:22:00] frankly, for a lot of builders that OSC role is still not fully utilized, not fully understood. It's definitely a place that a lot of builders can grow. But then they came back for lunch. We did some more round tables after lunch. And then we got into a rock star panel, Kevin. Tell us about our rock stars.
Kevin Weitzel: Man, it was beyond rock stars, Greg. We had Cortney Ridens from Meritage Homes. We had Danielle Davis from McStain Neighborhoods, and we had Laura Ownby from Landmark Homes. And it was fantastic because it was moderated by Stuart Platt over from OutHouse.
It basically went through the various pain points, the past, the future, the present, their crystal ball that each one of them have. And it was quite to the point. The room was all eyeballs to that front of the stage. Tons of questions. I think we had more questions than anything else.
Greg Bray: Yeah, I think that really showed that people love learning from these builders that have been there and done that, right? Because we opened it up for questions and they just kept coming. Those three ladies were very willing to share and were very transparent when they were asked questions. It was nothing [00:23:00] like, Oh, I can't tell you that. That's a secret.
They admitted to mistakes they've made as they've done this. They all work for builders of different sizes. Of course, Meritage is ginormous, you know, and some of the others are a little smaller, and they've been with other builders besides in their careers. Stuart did a great job of kind of kicking things off. And you even passed the mic around a little bit to help us out. There were so many questions. Stuart couldn't get around the room fast enough, so.
Kevin Weitzel: That's exactly it. There were so many questions. I was just, I played, you know, guy holding the mic. I played a mic stand. I have a new potential job if I ever get fired. I could be a mic stand. But you know what though? There's five lead-killing mistakes that builders make with their websites. And guess who covered that topic? A website god known as Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.
Greg Bray: Well, I don't know about that title, but I love talking about this stuff. Builders can learn how to use their website so much more effectively. Most of them don't take full advantage of everything that's out there. So, we just touched on a few of the key mistakes that the builders [00:24:00] make with their site to try and help people kind of view it a little bit differently.
Because ultimately, if you aren't demanding that your website work for you, then you're not going to make the kind of investments, you're not going to make the kind of changes and really push it to the limit of what's possible.
Kevin Weitzel: I had a key takeaway from yours, Greg. You'd be proud.
Greg Bray: What's that?
Kevin Weitzel: A key takeaway is that you don't necessarily have to spend a ton of money to put these practices into action. Sometimes it's just a question of putting the pencil to paper and having your team that is doing this, do it correctly.
Greg Bray: It is. It's all about mindset, right? And just kind of viewing that website as an investment that's supposed to generate a return. That's really the heart of it. Your website should be generating 50 percent of your sales in today's world if you're a top-performing online experience, and most builders are not anywhere close to that.
Well, Kevin, we had, of course, a big takeaway at the end with a big Kahoot where people got to know our sponsors. We need to take a minute with a thank you for our sponsors. We've [00:25:00] mentioned a few of them already, but at the top of the list, Livabl and Zonda, our diamond sponsor. Really, they've been with us multiple years now and we really appreciate their support and all that they put into that as well.
Kevin Weitzel: You've got our platinum sponsors, AtlasRTX and Bokka Group. Not only did they contribute, you know, as a sponsor, but they also brought content and also sponsored some events that we had there as well.
Greg Bray: We had our gold sponsors and these folks all helped with our round tables. We had 149Photos. We had Audience Town, ECI, and Lasso, who also were part of our OSC track, Nternow, Aireal, and Conversion. And the folks from Conversion came from across the pond, Kevin.
Kevin Weitzel: England.
Greg Bray: They got the award for the farthest travel requirement.
Kevin Weitzel: And of course our silver sponsors, Denim Marketing, Eliant, Zillow for New Construction, Homes for Hope. NoviHome, Realtor.com, Opendoor, and Builder's Update.
Greg Bray: We [00:26:00] had such a great group of sponsors this year. We're so appreciative because this event would not happen without all of them supporting it, participating with it. Numerous of them also donated some additional prizes for the games to make those more fun and engaging.
I just wanna give a shout at the Homes for Hope, 'cause they are doing some amazing work trying to address global poverty. We appreciate them coming and being able to share their message with the builders there. If you're not familiar with them, please check them out because they're really making a difference. The way that they address things with this microloan concept as opposed to just giving handouts.
Kevin Weitzel: The hand-up versus the handout. Yes.
Greg Bray: I really love that. Kevin, what do you think? Should we do it again next year?
Kevin Weitzel: We should definitely do it again next year. When are we going to do it? You already set a date.
Greg Bray: We have already set a date. That's how excited we are. 2024 next year, October 9th and 10th. So, save the date, block it on your calendar, cancel all your vacations, shut down any birthday parties, whatever you have to do to be there. [00:27:00] Make sure you block that date and there'll be more information coming as we get a little bit closer. But make sure you block those dates so you can be with us next year.
Kevin Weitzel: And let me close it out, Greg, with a sincere bit of gratitude to the teams at OutHouse and the teams at Blue Tangerine. Your guys' staff, put on such an outstanding event. It was incredible. I loved it. I know that our attendees loved it. I think that the surveys have come back and said that they loved it. So, fantastic event, and thank you for letting us be part of it.
Greg Bray: We enjoyed it. Again, I agree with you completely, great job by the team to make it all happen. And everybody, please plan to join us again next year, because it's going to be great. And thank you for listening today to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.
Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with Zonda and Livabl. Thank you. [00:28:00]