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This week on The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast, Greg and Kevin discuss and review some of the highlights of the 2023 NAHB International Builders' Show.
Greg Bray: [00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to today's episode, a very special episode of The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.
Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel OutHouse. Hey, Greg, before you get started, are you sure you're not saying that it's a special episode just because I'm on it?
Greg Bray: I am saying it's a special episode because we have a wonderful sponsor called NterNow who we want us to thank and give a big shout-out to for their support in making the podcast happen.
Kevin Weitzel: That's even better.
Greg Bray: But yes, Kevin, it is all about you, man. It's all about you, and it's special why? [00:01:00] Because we are just hot off the plane and the car and back home and just reeling from all the fun and learning at IBS. We just got back from IBS and we wanna share. Big picture, Kevin, IBS, better, worse, good, bad? Just a quick reaction.
Kevin Weitzel: Definitely better than COVID years. The hallways were packed. I'd say that my entire show was nothing but positive with one tiny exception. Those crazy lunch lines.
Greg Bray: Yes.
Kevin Weitzel: You'd think in Vegas of all places, and I don't know if this is just my stomach talking 'cause I got a pretty big stomach, but those lunch lines were insane. I mean, it was a good hour wait just in line. It was nuts.
Greg Bray: So, I gotta tell you, Kevin, I have learned personally, I bring protein bars. I can't eat in a normal schedule because it is, the lines are too long. So, I just have to have my little snack and then I eat at weird hours.
Kevin Weitzel: Did you just give literally everybody listening to the podcast, like their new thing to do every time they go to IBS? They're just gonna be walking around chomping on what? The Kind Bars. Let's give a plug to Kind. How about that?[00:02:00] Somebody's nutrition bars are the Quaker Oats. Who knows?
Greg Bray: And frankly, some of you guys that are wandering around or gals need better shoes. I see too many people not wearing comfortable shoes. I don't understand.
Kevin Weitzel: I am here to admit that I am a stickler for dress shoes, but with all my back ailments and my extra weight, I am at a point now where this was my first show, I wore exclusively running shoes. Sauconys. Saucony, the other brand of running shoes. Let's keep doing plugs. Let's make today about shameless plugs.
Greg Bray: How many shameless plugs can we throw in today? Well, Kevin, let's tell 'em why we thought it was great. I agree with you. I think a lot of energy there. Good energy. You know, I was wondering beforehand with where the market's at, if people are gonna come, like scared or not. I didn't feel fear. I didn't feel fear. I felt excitement. I felt enthusiasm, positive outlook about where things are going. Would you agree?
Kevin Weitzel: I a hundred percent agree with that. There's obviously the underlayment and just the nasty potential that things could turn, but we're nowhere near what we were with the crash of the early 9, [00:03:00] 10, all the way into 11 really. Because of the fact that we are short on inventory in a lot of markets still. I think that resale homes are, gonna be feeling some hurt. That's already progressed back to a buyer's market versus seller's market. But I think on new home sales, we're positioned right as long as the big players manage their land acquisition properly, and timely. I think that home builders are really setting themselves up to maintain that success level.
Greg Bray: Well, Kevin, let's, kind of walk through some of the highlights, some of the sessions that each of us saw or participated in, and some of the things that we think were well done. Things start actually before the big show. You're really involved in some of those committees and things. Tell us more about that.
Kevin Weitzel: So, I'm actually a trustee at large with the National Sales and Marketing Council. I took a year hiatus unexpectedly because I didn't know, being my first year was two years ago, I didn't know that you have to actually go formally reapply and start the whole process over again. So, lo and behold, I inadvertently booted myself out for a year, but I'm back. I'm part of the NSMC and there's several meetings that go on, on Sunday and Monday [00:04:00] beforehand, a lot of committees, subcommittees.
You know, the NSMC looks at ways that they can further support our builder network. There's, you know, awards and education. I mean, you name it, finance committees and lobbying. I mean, there's so many different categories of meetings. Honestly, there's as many meetings on those two days crammed in every single hour as there is in the entirety of IBS. So, yes, I got to take part in the sales and marketing meetings. They were fantastic.
A little shout-out to Alan Oliver over at Meredith Communication. He is now going to be the sitting chairperson of the National Sales Marketing Council. We'll see what happens under his watch and we'll go from there. But yeah, Sunday and Monday were fantastic because of that. And actually, Monday, a pre-party happened. I ran into you there. That was pretty cool. That was the realtor.com party.
Greg Bray: That was a fun get-together. The downside to Monday, I think is there were some travel issues for a lot of people, unfortunately. That was one of the underlying themes of the meeting, right, is who had travel issues on Monday with some storms and things. That was tough for some [00:05:00] people. But hey, if you didn't make it because of your flight got delayed, you missed a fun event.
Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely. And thank you and a shout out to realtor.com for hosting a fantastic and very awesome party.
Greg Bray: Yeah, yeah. Someday I'll learn how to throw parties, but now I just get to go to 'em, so that's awesome. But the big show, the big show started on Tuesday, right? The big show started on Tuesday. So, what were some of the sessions in the morning on Tuesday that you went to, and what'd you kind of get out of it?
Kevin Weitzel: Well, one that was actually pretty cool. Well, there were several that were pretty cool, but one that I liked a lot, and it really kind of hones into how builders can right-size their online sales counselor programs. This one was by Alisa Poncher, Angela McKay, Cori Masters, and Leah Fellows. It was both practical and applied practices that allow home builders, based on their size of their company and their size of their sales operation, to determine how to right-size that program. So, it was actually a very, very good session.
Greg Bray: That was a great team that they put together because they all have some terrific experience in that and have different perspectives as far as size of builders that they've worked with [00:06:00] and some of those things as well. So, that was a good one.
Kevin Weitzel: So, then we had a little bit of tear-jerking going along.
Greg Bray: Uh oh.
Kevin Weitzel: Another building knowledge session was put on by Will Duderstadt, Quint Lears, Beth Russell, and Zach Custer. Boy, Beth told us some stories about major, major pits that she had in her personal life that would normally derail anybody. But it basically showed how she kind of grabbed her bootstraps, lifted herself up, stayed positive, and just the different tips and tricks that allow sales and marketing to work together versus sales versus marketing. So, there was some very, very good insight there. A lot of inspiration that they brought to the table. So, that was a very good one that I enjoyed personally going to.
Greg Bray: Yeah. Awesome. That's great to hear.
Kevin Weitzel: Then we get over to Sales Central. So, you and I ran into each other several times in there. They have like these little mini-sessions. And in Sales Central, one of the ones on day one that I liked a lot was Kimberly Mackey. Where she's talking about the traction that you can establish to [00:07:00] establish your sales results. I think she actually did that same presentation elsewhere, correct?
Greg Bray: I got to see something. I don't know if it was the exact same one, but she was talking about traction in the Builder 20 Group lounge as well. And I think that's one of the things, Kevin, that sometimes people don't realize is there's the formal education tracks that are at IBS, but then there's a lot of these little side presentations in some of the other rooms that honestly, you have to like search the app a little bit to find them and dig a little bit to find some of these little gems. And they're much smaller groups and so you get to, you know, chat with the speaker more and maybe visit with some of the other attendees a little bit better.
I don't know if any of our friends at NAHB are listening. Somehow we've gotta make those a little more public and easier to find because I think there's some things that people miss cuz they just don't know they're there, and that was one of those that Kimberly did. It was really good, and traction also referring to that whole entrepreneurial operating system buzzword that comes from the book that helps you build your business, and be more accountable to your internal team as far as [00:08:00] making improvements and dealing with issues and things like that.
Kevin Weitzel: And, you know, I'm with you about the whole, you know, the NAHB needing to make those sub-education sessions more visible because I didn't know about this one. It was over at the Flamingo, actually kind of on a side street. It was a guy, he was called Three Card Monty. You know, I just kept pulling out twenties. I was gonna beat this guy. After I dropped about 200 bucks, I realized that I just can't beat this dude. I could not find the queen. I just couldn't do it.
Greg Bray: You, you gotta be careful when you're in Vegas, Kevin. You gotta be careful.
Kevin Weitzel: You do have to be careful, and obviously, I'm just kidding. But don't play Three Card Monty. You're gonna lose every time. Well, actually you win the first time when it's $5.
Greg Bray: Yeah.
Kevin Weitzel: But then when they step it up to 20, you are gonna lose every single time.
Greg Bray: Yeah. They pull you in. I'm sure.
Kevin Weitzel: So, we're all in sales and marketing in one way, shape, form, or another. Meredith did a pretty fantastic Sales Central mini about memorable marketing. And she gave some examples, showed company examples where you might not even remember the product. You might not even have remembered what it was, but you remembered the marketing campaign and [00:09:00] could circum navigate back to the root company that it was. So, that was a very interesting session that she did, a little mini-session in Sales Central.
Greg Bray: I mean, Meredith always brings the A game to everything she does. So, you know, it's gonna be good.
Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely. Yes. All right. Now, one of the ones that I enjoyed ridiculously well because I see this all the time. I see it more on the surface on a website, just with are they neglecting their website. But Carol Morgan and Rob Krohn did a session about the cost of neglect. Not just that you can neglect a website, you can neglect ad campaigns, but how when you stop that engine, how hard it is to get it rolling back up again. Once you stop the practice of, you know, you're repetitive and your calendar kept out layment when those stop that you have to basically reestablish yourself all over again. So, that was a very, very poignant and succinct session that they put on, and it was outstanding.
Greg Bray: And I think, Kevin, the reason you [00:10:00] probably connected with this is we're seeing so many builders having that exact issue right now, aren't we? Where they paused some things and now they're trying to figure out how to get things moving and they can't just snap their fingers and have it all in place and everything else. So, I think that's why you connected with it so well.
Kevin Weitzel: Well, one example they showed, and this is on the social media side, but they had somebody with their Facebook page and it was all blurred out, so you couldn't tell who it was. But they had a Facebook page where they showed the last entry was in 2018. Brother, that's five years ago.
Greg Bray: Yeah. That's crazy.
Kevin Weitzel: So, if you haven't done anything in your Facebook page in five years, hire one of your employees' kids to come in and manage your Facebook page if that's the case, because you gotta do something. Five years is absolute blatant neglect. You would've had your child taken away. You they should take away their Facebook page. That's what they should do.
Greg Bray: Take away their Facebook page. That's right, that's right.
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Well, Kevin, there's this other presentation on Tuesday that you missed. I'm a little confused because there was one that I did and you haven't even brought it up as like a good session.
Kevin Weitzel: What?
Greg Bray: I was really excited to be able to partner up with Shari Morton at [00:12:00] Shared Drive and David Hagan from Sales Uncomplicated, and we were talking about the handoff between online and onsite sales and the role of the website in all of that and how buyers move back and forth. It's no longer a linear journey of Oh, they go to the website, they make an appointment and they come to the office and now they just meet and stay with the salesperson. They go back and forth to the website, back and forth with the OSC, and then back to the onsite salesperson, and so we have to make that smoother. So, I just want to be sure that you didn't like accidentally skip that one on purpose.
Kevin Weitzel: Okay. So, let's talk about a very sensitive subject because I have a lot of friends in the NAHB. I have a lot of friends in the digital world in both sales and marketing. And yes, we do have to divide and conquer. There's only so many allotted hours in the day and yours did fall directly on a client meeting.
Greg Bray: Fair enough. Fair enough.
Kevin Weitzel: So, yes, I was in a the client meeting at the time. That is why we did not go to that one, but.
Greg Bray: But you make a great point, Kevin, is you had to make choices this year. There was content that was overlapping and you couldn't go to all of it. While it's a challenge, it's also good that there's [00:13:00] that much content to choose from. It's good to see that you've got that. So, no, I'm just giving you a hard time, man. I think the feedback we got is the topic that people are trying to understand is, again, the role of this OSC and, and how do we make it better. But hey, we're only on day one. We gotta get to day two.
Kevin Weitzel: Let's hit day two. Let's do it. One that was actually, uh, pretty interesting, 23 Digital Marketing Tools and Trends. Now, this one was basically just about all the trends and the various digital assets that you can utilize in your social media on your website. And this was done by Anya Chrisanthon, Mindy Lepp, and Julie Jarnagin. They put on a fantastic building knowledge session as well. I liked it.
Greg Bray: Awesome. Yeah, there's so many tools. It's hard to keep track of 'em all. Getting a nice list to kind of work with is always gonna be helpful for everybody.
Kevin Weitzel: And I had to run out of this session to the next one, but I wanted to know why is it 23 tools. They couldn't settle on 24 or 20? But 23 is just such a goofy number.
Greg Bray: Kevin, here's a little marketing tip. I don't know where it comes from, but people react to odd numbers in titles better.
Kevin Weitzel: Really?
Greg Bray: [00:14:00] Yeah. It's, it's one of these weird things, five or seven or 23 is there's something about odd numbers that make it feel more real than made up. I don't know. I've heard that. I can't prove it. If somebody has the study of where that comes from, please send it to me cuz I'd like to know where that comes from. That's what I've heard.
Kevin Weitzel: There's gotta be some psychology behind it for sure. I'm a zero-and-five guy. I want all my numbers to end in zeros or fives. So, if everything could be, you know, 20, 25, 30, 35, Kevin, his ADD is just a very happy person here. All right. So, inspiring the next generation. You know, we have a serious issue in the home building industry, and a lot of industries actually have staffing issues. You know, where are we gonna get our next generation of people to come in that has equaled the effect that The House That She Built campaign has done for both inclusivity for women, for minorities, and really teaching our youths that home building is a pathway of their potential life, you know, what they could be doing with themselves.
Greg Bray: Amen.
Kevin Weitzel: It was kind of cool cause it was a rapid [00:15:00] fire. I think they had 18 cuz there's 18 different trades that are featured in The House That She Built book. But it was led by Mollie Elkman and there were people like Carol Morgan, Patricia Potts, Jeff Shore, Alyssa Titus. It was just a whirlwind of just people hitting the stage, hitting the stage with just various ways that you can be impactful and that you can help inspire that next generation of movers and shakers to enter our industry instead of, I don't know, pinball machine making, who knows?
Greg Bray: But Kevin, you can't leave out Kristi Allen. All right. You gotta give her a big shout-out.
Kevin Weitzel: Well, here's the only reason why we had to leave out Kristi Allen. So, Kristi Allen, she shoots over a little text, a little photo. She got COVID right before, like the day before she flew out.
Greg Bray: Just because she wasn't there. But you can't talk about House That She Built and leave out Kristi Allen. Right?
Kevin Weitzel: You can't. No, you absolutely can't.
Greg Bray: She's the one that really made it happen when nobody really understood what was going on.
Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely missed for sure.
Greg Bray: It's too bad she couldn't be there.
Kevin Weitzel: I mean, well, she's freaking awesome to begin with, so, yeah. All right. [00:16:00] 55-plus. Now we don't do a lot of traveling into 55-plus just, our company in general, you know, we service some 55-plus.
Greg Bray: And Kevin, it's not very long before you and I are gonna be shopping 55-plus.
Kevin Weitzel: I'm almost there buddy. I'm almost there. But, Leah did a fantastic session in the 55-plus room. It's kinda the 55-plus Central that is.
Greg Bray: That's Leah Fellows, just for those, make sure they know who you're talking about. Leah Fellows.
Kevin Weitzel: What was amazing about it was that it wasn't just about OSCs. You know we all know what OSCs are and that they're important and how they feed the sales funnel and how they complement the sales funnel. But what she actually focused on is how you need to shift your OSC program to allow for the language and the contact differences and the connecting differences that occur with 55-plus. I was actually pretty blown away with how informative that one was. It was honestly one of my favorite centrals. Straight shooting. Not because Leah and I are friends, but it truly was one of my favorite centrals.
Greg Bray: Great. Leah does good [00:17:00] stuff. I remember talking to her after that one and she had felt really good about it too. So, glad to get your validation that it was a great one.
Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely. Alright, now let's give a little plug for one of your people, Mila Sorenson. She was also with Jim McKinley.
Greg Bray: And Mila and Jim, hadn't met before this presentation. This is something that was really kind of interesting and they were able to really do a great job. I heard some great things from others who were there too. Mila talking about Google Analytics 4. It's interesting because it's not the most exciting topic to talk about the fact that you have to upgrade your analytics.
Kevin Weitzel: Nerds. Oh, I'm sorry. What was that? What was that, Greg?
Greg Bray: But the reality is, is that if marketers aren't paying attention to Google Analytics 4, they've only got five months left. July 1st of this year, Google Analytics 3 is getting turned off, and if you don't have your reports ready to go, you're gonna be hurting. So, if you're out there listening and aren't up to speed on Google Analytics 4, it's time to figure that out. And Jim brought a lot of great SEO ideas and insights as well to that one. So, of course, SEO is still critical to all the marketing. [00:18:00]
Kevin Weitzel: Yes. Outside of that, there wasn't really much else going. Oh, wait a minute. Yes, there was. There was this ginormous party. I don't know if there's not a reason why everybody can't go to the ECI Lasso party. The ECI Lasso party is over-the-top ridiculous. It is where all the movers and shakers in sales and marketing go. You know what I think?
Greg Bray: Tell me what you think. Kevin, what do you think?
Kevin Weitzel: This is a straight-shooting. I think that the NAHB needs to partner with ECI Lasso to throw the party. That's what needs to happen. Their party is so happening and hip that that's what needs to happen.
Greg Bray: Yeah, it was great, and got to see so many people there. You know, sometimes you miss folks. This show's so big, it's hard to always connect with everybody. So, it was terrific to see lots of friends and clients and others, meet some new people and just reconnect and have some fun conversation. It was almost too crowded. There were so many people there, you couldn't even move around very easy.
Kevin Weitzel: It was crowded, which is a good problem to have, you know, it's better than a ghost town. [00:19:00] Being on the sales end of OutHouse, you know, I know that these events cost money. So, you know, I for one am appreciative to be included because I know that that is a huge outlayment for them and all the sponsors. So, thank you to ECI, to Lasso, and to all your sponsors you had for that event cuz that was a fantastic party and I appreciate being part of it. I know Greg, you appreciate being part of it too.
Greg Bray: Yeah, I do too, and our sponsor NterNow, they were participating in that as well. So, just appreciate them for their support there.
Kevin Weitzel: Yeah, that's right. Barrett and his team was all over there. Yeah, of course. And then of course the big old party, VIP party, and this year's Silver at Brooklyn Bowl as usual. And that's always ridiculous, over-the-top ridiculous. They've got photo booths and endless booze. Now I've cut back on my drinking, to be honest with you, but.
Greg Bray: For those of you who are trying to figure out how Kevin measures party success, it's in the endless booze category.
Kevin Weitzel: Endless booze is always a big plus. You get an A+ in my book when you start off with endless booze. Now if it's just a here's a drink. Well, that's only like a C. You [00:20:00] know, but endless booze A+ brothers, come on. Anyway. But that was really fun. We actually hung out with a couple of people from your crew, Erica, we hung out with Mila. Jim and myself were there. We were moving and shaking with Jordan and Chris and Meredith over from uh, K. Hovnanian. I mean, you name it. There was a lot of players there as well.
Greg Bray: Yeah. Fun time. Fun time.
Kevin Weitzel: All right. Now, after you've recovered from that.
Greg Bray: Yeah, I think the early morning sessions on Thursday were a little lighter attended. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. That was my feeling just looking around. It took a few hours for the thing to fill up Thursday morning.
Kevin Weitzel: Well, I had two sessions that I attended that I thought were outstanding. One was by Paula Huggett and it was about your website digital strategy, and how you need to pivot to adhere to all the changes that are basically going on, on the net. It was a very good program. The examples she showed, the charts that she showed were on point, and the messaging was there. So, I, I loved it.
Greg Bray: Paula is somebody that [00:21:00] I've interacted with, but I'd never met her in person before, so this was the first time I had a chance to meet Paula in person. So, that's one of the great things about this show, right, is this industry is so spread out and we work remotely or virtually together for so long. But everybody getting together and meeting, it's just great to meet people in person.
Kevin Weitzel: All right, so there's four places you can meet people at IBS. It couldn't have been the restroom, for obvious reasons. So, that leaves either on the floor, in a session, or at a party. Which one was it?
Greg Bray: I actually met her at the Lasso party. Yeah.
Kevin Weitzel: At a party. Boom. See, I told you. When you just casually run into people, it's either on the floor, at a party, or in a session. There's no exception to the rule or a bathroom. I have run into people in the bathroom. That's obviously very awkward but yes.
So, my last session that I went to, and it was fantastic. I'm a big fan of this guy. Kevin Oakley, he was also on stage. He had some other guy, Tom Nelson that was on there with him. Kevin Oakley is, in my opinion, an excel and analytics God.[00:22:00] If there's an analytics sheet, he's on it. He's devoured it. He's digested it. He's swirled it around his brain. I could literally listen to Kevin Oakley talk about a budgeting sheet. And speaking of a budgeting sheet, that's what the session was about. It was about how to derive your budget to make sure that you're maintaining a digital dominance in the workspace of our competition.
Greg Bray: And Kevin's talked in other venues as well about this idea of having that budget pre-done for the year so that you can now have the flexibility to adjust and not have to fight for money on your marketing because so often, you know, there's changes. You can't plan a year in advance and know everything that you're gonna want to do from a marketing standpoint. So, making sure you've got the resources kind of laid out and ready to adjust is really important.
Kevin Weitzel: And actually, some of the data that he showed, it's not that you shouldn't even have to fight for your marketing dollars. It's that there should be an allocation of marketing dollars that there shouldn't be a struggle or a fight to go on there.
Greg Bray: [00:23:00] Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's when you've got ownership that makes marketing a priority, right?
Kevin Weitzel: Absolutely.
Greg Bray: That's really what makes it work. Now, Kevin, the the other big session on Thursday though. This was standing room only in this session, right, was maximizing your social media presence. And it was really fun because Cory Dotson from our team, it was his first time speaking at IBS. He was a little nervous about it and then he just nailed it. People were in awe of some of the stuff. Cory was talking about social media influencers. He was joined by Brandon Barelman, Krystal Hobbs, and Nikki Kirkland. They each took like 12 minutes. It was one of these little four 12 sessions where they each had 12 minutes to talk about their piece, and it was great. People were raving about all of it. Sometimes on an afternoon or the last day you kind of wonder, is anybody gonna still be there? Are people starting to leave? And to have a full room for them, it just showed that people were engaged and ready to learn and want to do better this year.
Kevin Weitzel: Well, Cory is an angel because, and I'm gonna tell you why.
Greg Bray: All right. Tell me why.
Kevin Weitzel: [00:24:00] There's three reasons. One, on the nerd factor, that dude is amazing. When it comes to all the things that he does for your clients, Cory he's an A+ guy in my book. Two, he himself is an influencer. That guy knows about influencing because he is an influencer all in his own game. I mean, it's crazy. He's amazing. And three, he's cute. You know, I'm not on that team. I'm not on that team, but I tell you, I'd kill to have that little guy's looks, man. He is so good-looking it's ridiculous. It's like, oh, who is that? Oh, that's Cory. I thought that was Brad Pitt. No, it's Cory Dotson. Guy's amazing.
Greg Bray: Oh gosh. Well, we're gonna start the campaign. Cory needs to be on that Pro Builder Forty Under 40 list this year. I'm just telling you. If there's anybody listening who's on that committee, watch out. His application's coming. So, here we go.
Kevin Weitzel: Cory should be on it. You're exactly right.
Greg Bray: So Kevin, it was great to see you there, to hang out for a bit, to meet so many friends again, and be together to learn, to feel the energy and [00:25:00] enthusiasm. I just had a great show and was really glad that I could participate.
Kevin Weitzel: Always a pleasure, Greg, always.
Greg Bray: And thank you everybody for listening today and thank you again to our sponsor, NterNow for their support to help make this podcast happen. Learn more at nternnow.com. Thank you everybody for listening to The Home Builder Digital Marketing Podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.
Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse.